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Old 08-13-2007, 12:08 AM   #1
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Default Thrust Bearing question

hi all,

Can someone tell me which is the correct way to install thrust bearing on the clutch bell? The end with more balls showing toward the engine or the end with less balls showing? or it does not matter. I always put the end with more balls showing toward the engine.

As per mugen instruction, the thrust bearing washer with the bigger hole is closer to engine.

Thanks.
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Old 08-13-2007, 12:21 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by straightaway View Post

As per mugen instruction, the thrust bearing washer with the bigger hole is closer to engine.

Thanks.
stick to this instruction so that your T/B will work properly. if you measure the inner diameters of the washer holes, you'll see the difference.
as for the orientation of the ball bearings, i haven't seen much difference as i've oriented mine in both directions. its still holding in my kit...
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Old 08-13-2007, 02:45 AM   #3
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Bigger hole washer towards the engine (as this has to rotate on the shaft, the outer washer stands still) and "more balls showing" to the outside, away from the engine, so that any sh*t that gets into the thrust bearing, can actually fly away from there. Remember that it'll get IN there anyway, it's your job to make it easier for the sh*t to get OUT
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Old 08-13-2007, 10:11 AM   #4
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Been using the Mugen clutch even before I ran Mugen and Balls in is the motto. I have not blown a thrust bearing in a long time i just change them due to natural wear and tear but BALLS in has been a tried and true method...
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Old 08-13-2007, 12:38 PM   #5
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Thanks guys.

It seems like "balls" in give more play which seem a better match with the bigger washer on the inside.

I have been miss reading the mugen instruction manual, I thought it was talking about the balls in not washer with bigger hole in.

"The bigger bore goes toward the engine", referring to all 3 pcs of thrust bearing. Not very clear at all. I even asked a Mugen driver, he said they are all the same.
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Old 08-13-2007, 12:41 PM   #6
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correct!
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Old 08-13-2007, 02:43 PM   #7
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"bigger bore" means "washer with bigger hole", this goes towards the engine. Bigger in this case means 5.2mm internal hole (or bore, if you wish), the other washer has 5.0mm hole/bore. Mugen manual does not specify which way the ball separator should go, it apparently doesn't matter much, but I prefer the "balls out" approach, as I've already said, has worked OK for me in the 2 years I've ran Mugen.
And surely you can't have different amount of play depending on which way you install the ball separator, this is complete BS. The balls will still be in the same location no matter which way the separator plate is.
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Old 08-13-2007, 10:28 PM   #8
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I opened up one brand new sealed Thrust bearing. The way it comes is the end with more balls showing is toward the smaller hole 4.8 washer. Would this suggest this is the correct way?
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Last edited by straightaway; 08-15-2007 at 12:38 AM.
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Old 08-19-2007, 08:57 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lil-bump View Post
correct!
i DO NOT UNDERSTAND YOUR ANSWER; PLEASE EXPLAIN MR BUMP?
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Old 08-19-2007, 11:45 AM   #10
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The way the ballls face should not make a difference in the clutch end play but the two races that sandwich the balls do make a difference(not with clutch end play); The race with the bigger ID should be closer to the engine. but how the balls faces has nothing to do with clutch end play. I hope this make sense.
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Old 08-06-2015, 11:16 AM   #11
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Default Centax Clutch Mugen MRX Serpent Thrust Bearing Assembly / Orientation

The assembly of the thrust bearing and shimming of the clutch are critical to proper and reliable operation of the vehicle. The thrust bearing consists of of three pieces: 1) a 5.2 mm I.D. (Inside Diameter) race, 2) a thrust bearing with integral cage, and 3) a 5.0 mm I.D. race. The assebly should be constructed as follows: the 5.2 mm I.D. race should be placed closest to the engine, the thrust bearing should be packed with black grease (Associated Black Grease is readily available and works well) and oriented so that the cage and 3/4 bearings (balls in) face the motor, and finally the 5.0 mm I.D. race is placed on the outside. NOTE: The thrust bearing orentation of "balls in" "balls out" has been heavily debated, but for proper operation "balls in" orientation is required, the repeated slamming of the clutch keeps the bearing contained in the integral cage, with the "balls out" orientation the repeated clutch impact forces the balls out of the cage and will lead to bearing degredation and cage failure.

The following diagram using available characters details the orientation:

Motor, clutch, O ] o , screw

Key
O ] o = Thrust Bearing 3 Piece Assembly
O = 5.2 mm I.D. Race
] = "Balls In" thrust bearing
o = 5.0 mm I.D. Race

The thrust bearing should be cleaned and greased before each day of driving or more frequently if it is a long day. Shimming of the Centax Clutch is critical and is detailed on both links below.

http://www.serpent.com/news/10534/Building-and-Setting-Up-the-Centax-2-and-Centax-3-Clutches.html

http://mugen.eu/building-and-tuning-the-mugen-seiki-on-road-clutch-system/

Though not explicitly stated in either link, it is critical for the clutch bell to spin freely and not drag when spun by hand, otherwise the car will bog, the clutch will overheat, and you will ruin your motor/clutch. Remember that the bearings sit in the races in the assembly sandwitch.

The Mugen instructions on the MRX Clutch construction are vague at best and raise more questions then they answer. Unfortunately a $1000 plus investment gets you a highly abridged comic book like instruction manual, and a need to consult the local track guru to build your car correctly. Mugen should take a note from Losi and produce a highly detailed stand alone Instruction Manual that enables proper construction without the need to rely on and bother others for clarification on vague build steps. Hopefully this helps solve the thrust bearing mystery.
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Old 08-06-2015, 01:05 PM   #12
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Wow, and that on an 8 year old topic......

Well, for me no balls... I run a ball less thrust bearing
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