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Old 08-22-2007, 09:58 AM   #76
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Not compleetly my opinion.....
RC racing can get a serious level, for sure when racing national but is it the way to turn your back to when it is no fun anymore ?
You can also fight for a hobby-class as I once did. The 8th scale onroad was going down from 3 classes to 2 and ended up to 1 group of a maximum of 64 people. I alway sugested that 2 or more groups/classes will give more fun to the slower people when they can end up to a podiumplace and so we did go back to 2 classes and now we have a 3rd one which is actually an open clubrace with a goal to promote to the faster national classes.

Otherwise we have seen the popularity of the Tamiya and Kyosho races which are only for 1 brand. It shows there is a need for racing with RTR cars....
In fact, most of the newcommers do just that: quit when it is no fun anymore! There are many cheaper and easier form of leisure, so telling a newbie that he has to "work hard" to have fun in RC will not bring many back to the track...

I may be more stubborn that the average hobbyst, so this year I volunteered to help at the local RC club, where we run a local championship. We have a novice class (for RTRs), but we are struggling to get half a dozen racers for that class. We used to have 2 novice classes, one for begginers and one for intermediate racers, but the turnout declined over the last years, so this year we merged the two classes. The problem is, there is no "new blood" coming into the hobby. And even locally, there are always some hardcore racers that will invest more time and money and scare the newbies...

The most popular class is still the "expert" 200mm class (but is also declining), and this year we introduced the 1/8 class. This is what I race now, since the cars are tougher, so the time spent in maintenance is not as much as the 200mm. But the higher cost is certainly an issue...
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Old 08-22-2007, 10:07 AM   #77
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I understand we are in the Nitro forum here, but a newbie starting with Nitro is a tall hill to climb. I really feel that best place is with elec to start a newbie, because you get a motor slow enough they are not breaking all the time. But with all that said, a RTR Nitro (looking for a slower solution) would be great, and only can you run the RTR with no mods to it... Keeping the price to have fun low (as possible).
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Old 08-22-2007, 10:07 AM   #78
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that's a good post......

but, I don't think price has everything to do with it...my whole group of friends started racing in 1996....and having a 1000 dollar HPI Rs4 (remember, Ball bearings weren't even standard back then).....or a 1,000 dollar GP spyder never deterred us........


because you could spend whatever, have a car that was as good as the guy next to you....was not overly complicated, learn to race, and have fun..

the problem today is that the cars are faster, cheaper, more complex......and there is a RC base that knows how to race......but to a newbie, who either gets a high end car and gets overwhelmed (esp when I make it look easy..).....

or buys a less inexpensive kit....and gets smoked by a hand modified Rb or nova, the whole process becomes less fun...

and makes video gaming more appealing.........

the answer isn't in the dollars spent......

its in the fun per dollar spent...............

and RC racing today has become less fun.......for alot of reasons....
That's EXACTLY my point!

I'm not talking about myself (altough a Nintendo Wii is already on my wishlist ), but all friends and relatives I tried to bring into RC racing didn't find it so appealing. Many found the "litlle cars" interesting at first, but when they knew about the cost, the enthusiasm was gone. A very few even bought a car and bashed or raced a couple of times, but when they realize the "fun-per-dollar" factor was not as good as they expected, they sold everything...
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Old 08-22-2007, 10:55 AM   #79
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Barry,

The Kyosho Inferno GT and other manufacturer’s RTR Buggy based Rally Cars are the answer for “newbies”. They’re fast enough, loud enough, big enough and won’t send them into a “comma” when you tell them how much it costs to get started racing.

Check with hobby shops in your area. Ask them how many “GT” they sell compared to hi-end product. You’ll be amazed.

If hobby shops were to try to get each “newbie” to purchase VRC, the “learning curve” would be much quicker. It would also get more “gamers” acclimated to R/C chassis understanding and we’d have a lot more racers world-wide.

Promotion of R/C racing needs to be done at every level.
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Old 08-22-2007, 12:48 PM   #80
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Barry,

The Kyosho Inferno GT and other manufacturer’s RTR Buggy based Rally Cars are the answer for “newbies”. They’re fast enough, loud enough, big enough and won’t send them into a “comma” when you tell them how much it costs to get started racing.

Check with hobby shops in your area. Ask them how many “GT” they sell compared to hi-end product. You’ll be amazed.

If hobby shops were to try to get each “newbie” to purchase VRC, the “learning curve” would be much quicker. It would also get more “gamers” acclimated to R/C chassis understanding and we’d have a lot more racers world-wide.

Promotion of R/C racing needs to be done at every level.
What he said!
Do any ROAR or IFMAR reps read this board? How about manufacturer reps?
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Old 08-22-2007, 01:19 PM   #81
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The idea of a ready to run touring car, is just a little short of suckering in new racers. Yea it's a cheaper way to start, but then, they will want the faster stuff. That means they bought the cheap starter car, then bought the good one. Which means they would have saved money by, buying the good one to start with.
To get on-road back to where it was, you need to go back to the parking lots, where it started.And if everyone could talk one person into it, it would double, right. There is no such thing as budget racing.
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Old 08-22-2007, 01:23 PM   #82
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There is no such thing as budget racing.
I disagree but I have to run to a meeting...I will expound later. Golf analogy coming.
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Old 08-22-2007, 02:18 PM   #83
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Bvoltz,

There use to be a manufacturer that had their own series. Fastharry could back me up on this one. It was HPI with their HPI Challenge. There were three regions, USA, Europe, and Asia, with a world championship race at the end of the race series. It rotated between those three regions each year. I had a chance to go to the one in Las Vegas in 2003 where I finished 9th in the 200mm nitro A-main (had car, driving, and pitman issues). As Fastharry can attest to, the turnouts for the US events were great in the beginning (many having more than 150 racers participating). They gave out the coolest prizes including complete kits to the winners of the A-main. So, it can be successful if the manufacturer stands behind it and sticks with it. This is why many of us are puzzled with HPI's decision to suspend the Challenge series in the US (about 2 yrs ago) and soon suspend it in Europe and Asia (Europe had one last yr, I think; don't know if the Asian Challenge is still being run). A very successful series that they just pulled the plug, go figure.
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Old 08-22-2007, 02:44 PM   #84
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Bvoltz,

There use to be a manufacturer that had their own series. Fastharry could back me up on this one. It was HPI with their HPI Challenge. There were three regions, USA, Europe, and Asia, with a world championship race at the end of the race series. It rotated between those three regions each year. I had a chance to go to the one in Las Vegas in 2003 where I finished 9th in the 200mm nitro A-main (had car, driving, and pitman issues). As Fastharry can attest to, the turnouts for the US events were great in the beginning (many having more than 150 racers participating). They gave out the coolest prizes including complete kits to the winners of the A-main. So, it can be successful if the manufacturer stands behind it and sticks with it. This is why many of us are puzzled with HPI's decision to suspend the Challenge series in the US (about 2 yrs ago) and soon suspend it in Europe and Asia (Europe had one last yr, I think; don't know if the Asian Challenge is still being run). A very successful series that they just pulled the plug, go figure.
Interesting... my first thought to why is.... "miking the cow" But I could be way off... Isn't it like the Taymia series?
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Old 08-22-2007, 04:55 PM   #85
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The idea of a ready to run touring car, is just a little short of suckering in new racers. Yea it's a cheaper way to start, but then, they will want the faster stuff. That means they bought the cheap starter car, then bought the good one. Which means they would have saved money by, buying the good one to start with.
To get on-road back to where it was, you need to go back to the parking lots, where it started.And if everyone could talk one person into it, it would double, right. There is no such thing as budget racing.
Wardo,

That’s a little bit of a harsh statement. Yes it might be better off to spend $3-$5K in the beginning on a hard core 8th scale pro-level car, but do you honestly believe it is such an easy sell?

Do you think they’ll be doing it for a long time when they get punted from the track every qualifier?

How many “wanna be” R/C racer wives will say “sure honey go ahead and spend your monthly salary to try to get started in “this R/C racing thing” for a just bowling trophy?

Hi-End & Top of the line R/C product has its place and that won’t ever change.

But to think that someone New, that has never raced R/C cars before should start off buying a $300-$700 dollar engine, for his $400-$800 dollar chassis, with $300 servos for his $400 transmitter and still needs to cut of 4mm off his $30-$60 dollar set of new foams, with his $300-$600 tire truer, just to be taken out by the local “wanna be hotshot looking for a 50% deal guy,” at the beginning of a qualifier is going to last a long in our sport; is not reality, its living in "La-La Land".

You see the picture I just painted in the last paragraph? That is the reality of our sport as it exists today. No entry level= No new people.

Now wouldn’t the R/C picture look better this way?

Mr. & Mrs. Newbie R/C racer walk into a hobby shop and Mr. Newbie buys a RTR Kyosho Inferno GT. Mrs. Newbie is a little upset because Mr. Newbie just purchased a toy for $400 dollars.

Mr. Newbie enters an RC Pro Series “GT” class race and “the angels in the backstretch” help Mr. Newbie to win his “main”.

Mrs. Newbie is so proud of him and she soon forgives Mr. Newbie for his extravagant toy car purchase.

Mr. & Mrs. Newbie live happily ever after in the world of R/C racing. PS, Mrs. Newbie purchases a new “GT” too.

Down the road, Mr. Newbie decides to take the next step to R/C racing immortality by moving up in “class” and Mrs. Newbie supports his brave move.

The Hi-End product is purchased and all the “R/C Gods” are happy.

Get it now?

New people to R/C need to start somewhere; if you want them to start at all.
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Old 08-22-2007, 05:21 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by Jspeed View Post
Wardo,

That’s a little bit of a harsh statement. Yes it might be better off to spend $3-$5K in the beginning on a hard core 8th scale pro-level car, but do you honestly believe it is such an easy sell?

Do you think they’ll be doing it for a long time when they get punted from the track every qualifier?

How many “wanna be” R/C racer wives will say “sure honey go ahead and spend your monthly salary to try to get started in “this R/C racing thing” for a just bowling trophy?

Hi-End & Top of the line R/C product has its place and that won’t ever change.

But to think that someone New, that has never raced R/C cars before should start off buying a $300-$700 dollar engine, for his $400-$800 dollar chassis, with $300 servos for his $400 transmitter and still needs to cut of 4mm off his $30-$60 dollar set of new foams, with his $300-$600 tire truer, just to be taken out by the local “wanna be hotshot looking for a 50% deal guy,” at the beginning of a qualifier is going to last a long in our sport; is not reality, its living in "La-La Land".

You see the picture I just painted in the last paragraph? That is the reality of our sport as it exists today. No entry level= No new people.

Now wouldn’t the R/C picture look better this way?

Mr. & Mrs. Newbie R/C racer walk into a hobby shop and Mr. Newbie buys a RTR Kyosho Inferno GT. Mrs. Newbie is a little upset because Mr. Newbie just purchased a toy for $400 dollars.

Mr. Newbie enters an RC Pro Series “GT” class race and “the angels in the backstretch” help Mr. Newbie to win his “main”.

Mrs. Newbie is so proud of him and she soon forgives Mr. Newbie for his extravagant toy car purchase.

Mr. & Mrs. Newbie live happily ever after in the world of R/C racing. PS, Mrs. Newbie purchases a new “GT” too.

Down the road, Mr. Newbie decides to take the next step to R/C racing immortality by moving up in “class” and Mrs. Newbie supports his brave move.

The Hi-End product is purchased and all the “R/C Gods” are happy.

Get it now?

New people to R/C need to start somewhere; if you want them to start at all.
I could not have said it better.
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Old 08-22-2007, 05:26 PM   #87
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Ok, how many of you started off with a ready to run car, in a class set up for ready to run cars. I would say not many. My point is not to start in 8th scale, with 600 dollar motors.My point is you don't save money by getting a ready to run car. Yes it is cheaper than a new Mugen or X-Ray or whatever, but you want them to stay in racing. Now they have to go buy the Mugen and spend money they should have spent in the first place. It's not the car, it's the class. It's called novice. Let them run whatever they have.
There have been lots of people try these ideas that are being talked about, and I know of no one that has made it work.
The Southwest series started a "spec class" for 8th scale. It was to be a cheaper way to race. They use a motor that (I think ) cost $350. The problem with that is, now that the motor is cheaper, just means some can afford to buy 2 motors rather than just one.
Some people will just be able to spend more money than others.
The best thing you can do for someone new is give them a novice class,and let them run whatever they can afford to buy.
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Old 08-22-2007, 07:01 PM   #88
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Wardo,

You’re just not getting it or you just don’t want to, which one is it?

You talk about a “spec” 8th scale class with motors that cost $300 dollars?

The whole RTR Kyosho Inferno GT costs less than $400 dollars. Do you think Mrs. Newbie is going to give Mr. Newbie “any” if he buys just an engine for $300 dollars and Mr. Newbie still has to buy everything else?

Just in case you don’t know anything about Kyosho’s Inferno GT here’s a factory video of the RTR vehicle that won’t embarrass you when Mrs. Newbie asks you how much Mr. Newbie’s or Lil Baby Newbie’s new toy car will costs.

http://www.kyoshoamerica.com/videos/...INFERNO_GT.wmv

Wardo, spec classes are cool, just take a look at the video link. If you can’t see what Mr. & Mrs. Newbie can see I’ll send you a new set of rose colored glasses, just kidding, lol.

I think this thread has changed direction towards those R/C manufacturers, distributors, enthusiasts shop owners and track/owner operators that actually want to see R/C racing grow.
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Old 08-22-2007, 07:13 PM   #89
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to clarify my early post i am both im new to rc and im young 18 to be more precice. my local track does have a rtr/novice category and with all the upgrade kits out there sending a car into pro class that you bought as a rtr is not so hard at a local level. heres a link to the local track http://www.gcmr.org.au/

and the 200 i spent on parts wer'nt hop up they were replacements for things i broke i gave the car hell.
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Old 08-22-2007, 07:30 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by Jspeed View Post
Wardo,

You’re just not getting it or you just don’t want to, which one is it?

You talk about a “spec” 8th scale class with motors that cost $300 dollars?

The whole RTR Kyosho Inferno GT costs less than $400 dollars. Do you think Mrs. Newbie is going to give Mr. Newbie “any” if he buys just an engine for $300 dollars and Mr. Newbie still has to buy everything else?

Just in case you don’t know anything about Kyosho’s Inferno GT here’s a factory video of the RTR vehicle that won’t embarrass you when Mrs. Newbie asks you how much Mr. Newbie’s or Lil Baby Newbie’s new toy car will costs.

http://www.kyoshoamerica.com/videos/...INFERNO_GT.wmv

Wardo, spec classes are cool, just take a look at the video link. If you can’t see what Mr. & Mrs. Newbie can see I’ll send you a new set of rose colored glasses, just kidding, lol.

I think this thread has changed direction towards those R/C manufacturers, distributors, enthusiasts shop owners and track/owner operators that actually want to see R/C racing grow.
Ok now I have a idea, but I would like to know if anyone has a nice Video I can setup on a Table to is looped and explains R/C? This is great video, but lacking audio... Anyone out there willing to add in some auto about this class and racing...??? Please
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