KYOSHO RED BOX TIRE
07-20-2007, 10:03 PM
#16
im a noob so how would u guys rate these tires against Jaco's, GQ's, twisters, etc.?
07-20-2007, 10:05 PM
#17
I have never actually used twisters tires. The red box tires are better than the Jaco's or the GQ tires. The GQ is a good wheel and a good tire. The Jacos' using the serpent wheel is a good wheel, but I had back luck with Jaco tires. Jack Rimer (jaco) will tell everyone that all the rubber is the same. I don't know if that is true, but there is definitely a difference in the way different brands work.
07-20-2007, 10:12 PM
#18
i like grp then zac then GQ then kyosho even though i have to put on wheel spacers,then if i dont have anything jacos always work.and if you want big time steering x50 up front
twister i dont know coz nobody here gets them in.
the cheapest tire right now is jaco at 15.00 bucks
07-20-2007, 10:17 PM
#19
I have never actually used twisters tires. The red box tires are better than the Jaco's or the GQ tires. The GQ is a good wheel and a good tire. The Jacos' using the serpent wheel is a good wheel, but I had back luck with Jaco tires. Jack Rimer (jaco) will tell everyone that all the rubber is the same. I don't know if that is true, but there is definitely a difference in the way different brands work.
i was told there are 3 rubber manufactures
but ppl talk
07-21-2007, 12:57 AM
#20
Hi,
This is my experience with my V one RRR
GRP :Very good grip. But is a step softer than other brands. 40 s. GRP is
equal the 37 S. GQ. The DTM rim is breakebile and the rim is to
soft. But the Serpent rim is ok.
GQ : Very good strong hard rims. It is 2 step harder than GRP. Grip is
good.But not better than Jaco!
ZAC : Rim is soft too. Acctually I dont like soft rims. Becauce you lost your
shock settings! The tire grip is same as GRP but you have less tire
wear in same shore
PMT : Have got very little experience. But this was one of the best tire
I have ever tired. Very good grip and tire wear. Only the rims are
breakebile because there are thinn but not soft! Here in germany
I couldnt find none offset tire from pmt! All the tires is offset
ATS : This tire is to hard. There is a new version avaible. "Andrea Christiani"
This tires have a special lightened rims but very strong. Has better grip
than previous version. But not enough. Its hard to the find the right
setting for this tire. With the standart version I had very bad
experiences.
JACO :I found that , the jacos are very duralable.It has better grip than GQ
and less wear than GRP. Good tire wear and enough grip. The rims are
strong . I'll try the 2 stage tires and let you now.
Kyosho : I have orderd some and want test nex week.
I did my test on european style tracks. Grip is generall mid. and the tracks was low to mid bite tracks. Asphalt temp. 50-60 c. Air temp. 30-35 c.
This is my experience with my V one RRR
GRP :Very good grip. But is a step softer than other brands. 40 s. GRP is
equal the 37 S. GQ. The DTM rim is breakebile and the rim is to
soft. But the Serpent rim is ok.
GQ : Very good strong hard rims. It is 2 step harder than GRP. Grip is
good.But not better than Jaco!
ZAC : Rim is soft too. Acctually I dont like soft rims. Becauce you lost your
shock settings! The tire grip is same as GRP but you have less tire
wear in same shore
PMT : Have got very little experience. But this was one of the best tire
I have ever tired. Very good grip and tire wear. Only the rims are
breakebile because there are thinn but not soft! Here in germany
I couldnt find none offset tire from pmt! All the tires is offset
ATS : This tire is to hard. There is a new version avaible. "Andrea Christiani"
This tires have a special lightened rims but very strong. Has better grip
than previous version. But not enough. Its hard to the find the right
setting for this tire. With the standart version I had very bad
experiences.
JACO :I found that , the jacos are very duralable.It has better grip than GQ
and less wear than GRP. Good tire wear and enough grip. The rims are
strong . I'll try the 2 stage tires and let you now.
Kyosho : I have orderd some and want test nex week.
I did my test on european style tracks. Grip is generall mid. and the tracks was low to mid bite tracks. Asphalt temp. 50-60 c. Air temp. 30-35 c.
07-21-2007, 01:57 AM
#22
Can you pls share your experience with this tire. Your are serius racer and I thing it is more importend than my experiences.
thnx
07-21-2007, 02:33 AM
#23
Your experiences are important. What works for me may not work for you. I have not run all the tires you have. Most have been pretty good.
I have raced:
GRP: The older 2 mm spoked wheel was pretty good. The 1mm spoked wheel is not good. Bends easily and spokes break as well. I have not tried the dish wheel. Grip, wear and resistance to chunking are all average (which means pretty good)
ZAC: Better grip than the GRP. Stiff wheel. Doesn't bend very easily at all. Also doesn't break very easily. It will bend or break, but it takes a pretty good shot. Same wear and resistance to chunking as the GRP. Higher cost tire.
Jaco: Old wheel shattered upon any impact. The serpent wheel they use is much better. The stiffness of the wheel is a very good balance between bending or breaking. It doesn't bend nearly as easily as the GRP wheel. It doesn't break as easily as the ZAC. Lower grip than any tire I have used. Good wear, but I found them to chunk very easily. Maybe I had bad "luck" but they chunked on me almost every time I hit the track. Good pricing.
GQ: Nice wheel. Doesn't break and doesn't bend very easily, but will bend around the center of the axle. A flanged wheel nut helps with that problem, but that is the worst problem with the GQ. I found it to have grip similar to the GRP but just seemed a bit inconsistant in the way it handled. Also it seemed to change a lot as it warmed up which made qualifying difficult sometimes. Much better than Jaco for chunking, but slightly worse than GRP. Good pricing but supply was very inconsistant. It has been over a year since I ran GQ.
Microsystems: This uses the Serpent wheel which I think is probably the best overall wheel. I think this one is basically just like the GRP, but with a much better wheel. Good tire. This is what I was racing with until I signed with Kyosho.
Kyosho Red Box: I think the serpent wheel is the best, but this one is a very close second ( I hope I don't get in trouble for saying that). I haven't broken one and they don't bend easily either. Grip is better than all of them except the Zac. It has the same grip as ZAC. It works better in high grip situations than the Zac. Wear is about the same as the GRP and the microsystems. It is now priced competetively.
If I had no tire sponsors at all and I could easily get all the tires (a consistant supply of tires is important to me) my order would be:
Kyosho
Microsystems
Zac
GQ
GRP
Jaco
I put GQ ahead of GRP only based upon the super flimsy 1mm offset spoked wheel I used on my MTX4. The MTX3 wheel was a lot better.
I have raced:
GRP: The older 2 mm spoked wheel was pretty good. The 1mm spoked wheel is not good. Bends easily and spokes break as well. I have not tried the dish wheel. Grip, wear and resistance to chunking are all average (which means pretty good)
ZAC: Better grip than the GRP. Stiff wheel. Doesn't bend very easily at all. Also doesn't break very easily. It will bend or break, but it takes a pretty good shot. Same wear and resistance to chunking as the GRP. Higher cost tire.
Jaco: Old wheel shattered upon any impact. The serpent wheel they use is much better. The stiffness of the wheel is a very good balance between bending or breaking. It doesn't bend nearly as easily as the GRP wheel. It doesn't break as easily as the ZAC. Lower grip than any tire I have used. Good wear, but I found them to chunk very easily. Maybe I had bad "luck" but they chunked on me almost every time I hit the track. Good pricing.
GQ: Nice wheel. Doesn't break and doesn't bend very easily, but will bend around the center of the axle. A flanged wheel nut helps with that problem, but that is the worst problem with the GQ. I found it to have grip similar to the GRP but just seemed a bit inconsistant in the way it handled. Also it seemed to change a lot as it warmed up which made qualifying difficult sometimes. Much better than Jaco for chunking, but slightly worse than GRP. Good pricing but supply was very inconsistant. It has been over a year since I ran GQ.
Microsystems: This uses the Serpent wheel which I think is probably the best overall wheel. I think this one is basically just like the GRP, but with a much better wheel. Good tire. This is what I was racing with until I signed with Kyosho.
Kyosho Red Box: I think the serpent wheel is the best, but this one is a very close second ( I hope I don't get in trouble for saying that). I haven't broken one and they don't bend easily either. Grip is better than all of them except the Zac. It has the same grip as ZAC. It works better in high grip situations than the Zac. Wear is about the same as the GRP and the microsystems. It is now priced competetively.
If I had no tire sponsors at all and I could easily get all the tires (a consistant supply of tires is important to me) my order would be:
Kyosho
Microsystems
Zac
GQ
GRP
Jaco
I put GQ ahead of GRP only based upon the super flimsy 1mm offset spoked wheel I used on my MTX4. The MTX3 wheel was a lot better.
07-21-2007, 03:03 AM
#24
Thnx for information. Only the GQ and jaco experience from me is different. Acctually there is a big diffence. I had a little more grip with Jaco and wear was better than GQ. This is really intresting. After this post I'll buy a new fesh box GQ from LHS and try again.
thnx
thnx
07-21-2007, 07:01 AM
#25
Your experiences are important. What works for me may not work for you. I have not run all the tires you have. Most have been pretty good.
I have raced:
GRP: The older 2 mm spoked wheel was pretty good. The 1mm spoked wheel is not good. Bends easily and spokes break as well. I have not tried the dish wheel. Grip, wear and resistance to chunking are all average (which means pretty good)
ZAC: Better grip than the GRP. Stiff wheel. Doesn't bend very easily at all. Also doesn't break very easily. It will bend or break, but it takes a pretty good shot. Same wear and resistance to chunking as the GRP. Higher cost tire.
Jaco: Old wheel shattered upon any impact. The serpent wheel they use is much better. The stiffness of the wheel is a very good balance between bending or breaking. It doesn't bend nearly as easily as the GRP wheel. It doesn't break as easily as the ZAC. Lower grip than any tire I have used. Good wear, but I found them to chunk very easily. Maybe I had bad "luck" but they chunked on me almost every time I hit the track. Good pricing.
GQ: Nice wheel. Doesn't break and doesn't bend very easily, but will bend around the center of the axle. A flanged wheel nut helps with that problem, but that is the worst problem with the GQ. I found it to have grip similar to the GRP but just seemed a bit inconsistant in the way it handled. Also it seemed to change a lot as it warmed up which made qualifying difficult sometimes. Much better than Jaco for chunking, but slightly worse than GRP. Good pricing but supply was very inconsistant. It has been over a year since I ran GQ.
Microsystems: This uses the Serpent wheel which I think is probably the best overall wheel. I think this one is basically just like the GRP, but with a much better wheel. Good tire. This is what I was racing with until I signed with Kyosho.
Kyosho Red Box: I think the serpent wheel is the best, but this one is a very close second ( I hope I don't get in trouble for saying that). I haven't broken one and they don't bend easily either. Grip is better than all of them except the Zac. It has the same grip as ZAC. It works better in high grip situations than the Zac. Wear is about the same as the GRP and the microsystems. It is now priced competetively.
If I had no tire sponsors at all and I could easily get all the tires (a consistant supply of tires is important to me) my order would be:
Kyosho
Microsystems
Zac
GQ
GRP
Jaco
I put GQ ahead of GRP only based upon the super flimsy 1mm offset spoked wheel I used on my MTX4. The MTX3 wheel was a lot better.
I have raced:
GRP: The older 2 mm spoked wheel was pretty good. The 1mm spoked wheel is not good. Bends easily and spokes break as well. I have not tried the dish wheel. Grip, wear and resistance to chunking are all average (which means pretty good)
ZAC: Better grip than the GRP. Stiff wheel. Doesn't bend very easily at all. Also doesn't break very easily. It will bend or break, but it takes a pretty good shot. Same wear and resistance to chunking as the GRP. Higher cost tire.
Jaco: Old wheel shattered upon any impact. The serpent wheel they use is much better. The stiffness of the wheel is a very good balance between bending or breaking. It doesn't bend nearly as easily as the GRP wheel. It doesn't break as easily as the ZAC. Lower grip than any tire I have used. Good wear, but I found them to chunk very easily. Maybe I had bad "luck" but they chunked on me almost every time I hit the track. Good pricing.
GQ: Nice wheel. Doesn't break and doesn't bend very easily, but will bend around the center of the axle. A flanged wheel nut helps with that problem, but that is the worst problem with the GQ. I found it to have grip similar to the GRP but just seemed a bit inconsistant in the way it handled. Also it seemed to change a lot as it warmed up which made qualifying difficult sometimes. Much better than Jaco for chunking, but slightly worse than GRP. Good pricing but supply was very inconsistant. It has been over a year since I ran GQ.
Microsystems: This uses the Serpent wheel which I think is probably the best overall wheel. I think this one is basically just like the GRP, but with a much better wheel. Good tire. This is what I was racing with until I signed with Kyosho.
Kyosho Red Box: I think the serpent wheel is the best, but this one is a very close second ( I hope I don't get in trouble for saying that). I haven't broken one and they don't bend easily either. Grip is better than all of them except the Zac. It has the same grip as ZAC. It works better in high grip situations than the Zac. Wear is about the same as the GRP and the microsystems. It is now priced competetively.
If I had no tire sponsors at all and I could easily get all the tires (a consistant supply of tires is important to me) my order would be:
Kyosho
Microsystems
Zac
GQ
GRP
Jaco
I put GQ ahead of GRP only based upon the super flimsy 1mm offset spoked wheel I used on my MTX4. The MTX3 wheel was a lot better.
only thing i found was the zacs chunked a little easier for me.
07-21-2007, 07:25 AM
#27
can't wait for QLD man. the entry list is pritty small though.
we might have a chance of the A finals dude
07-21-2007, 08:34 AM
#28
Tech Fanatic
It's also amazing how you can claim to be objective when you run for Kyosho. There is a reason drivers like Ralph Burch, Josh Cyrul, Paul Lemieux, Paolo Morganti, Barry Baker, Mike Blackstock, etc, etc. choose JACO. They feel they are the best. Ask Ralph about the testing he did before he chose JACO. The fact that you rank our tires last on your list completely invalidates your opinion. Especially given the race success we have had. These guys would not jeapordize their racing careers by running the "6th best tires".
07-21-2007, 10:40 AM
#29
It's also amazing how you can claim to be objective when you run for Kyosho. There is a reason drivers like Ralph Burch, Josh Cyrul, Paul Lemieux, Paolo Morganti, Barry Baker, Mike Blackstock, etc, etc. choose JACO. They feel they are the best. Ask Ralph about the testing he did before he chose JACO. The fact that you rank our tires last on your list completely invalidates your opinion. Especially given the race success we have had. These guys would not jeapordize their racing careers by running the "6th best tires".
I stand by what I say. I ranked your tires last when compared to the others because they almost always chunked when I used them. Just because I race for Kyosho doesn't mean everything I said isn't true. Every one of the drivers that you mention above (many of which also run for you) is a great driver with tremendous results. Those facts are not in dispute. My results of tire testing are just that. My results. Your tires are certainly capable of winning races on any level, but I had very frustrating results when using them. I will not debate my results with you as nothing you say is going to change the results I have. I also will not debate my integrity with you either. If you doubt my honesty it is because you don't know me.
BTW: I pay for my tires (yes I get a discount) and I actually pay a bit more for them than any of the previous tires I used previously. Also, I am not required to use Kyosho tires. I am free to run whatever tire I think gives me the best chance to win races.
Finally I wanted to say all of testing was done using a sedan.
PM sent to you Jack
Last edited by Scott Fisher; 07-21-2007 at 11:16 AM.
07-21-2007, 11:03 AM
#30
I've run Serpent, Mugen and now Kyosho... just my experiences here from an average Joe racer......
Jaco- I'll be the first here who is spending his own money to say that I will only purchase Jaco's I find them an extremely attractive tire in all aspects. Strong new rims, good wear, good traction and as chunk resistant of a tire as they get. You can see they glue these bad boys real good.... the glue is visible between the rim and tire. At last years GLC I was pitted right across from Paulo and showed him that my rims were cracking around the rear axle pins. He took a set of my used rims and an axle pin to take back with him so the fit could be corrected. They are now perfectly fitting rims! Jack was kind enough to give me durometer info so I could purchase the correct style for my personal use. Best price/performance value in my book. Look in the trash can at any big event.... they are full of Jaco boxes- that tells you something.
ATS- I've run these a few times in a pinch and had good results. Prices similar to Jaco's.
GRP- (GRP, FAST, Ennetti, etc..)- good wear, rims and traction. I've noticed GRP has amazingly accurate shore ratings on thier tires. However, way too expensive for the average racer..... crossed off my list.
Twister- I have not had great luck with these on my 1/8th scale in the past, but they were great in my sedan. The 1/8th Mugen/Kyosho style rear rims were way too sloppy and caused them to wear very quickly around the rear axle. It was impossible to set my car up using Twisters. I hear they have changed the rim design and they fit Mugen and Kyosho better on the axle now. I would run them again if the rims were truly fixed and I had a cause to switch from Jaco's. Omar is great to deal with..... just not during hurricane season..... LOL
I have personally not tried the Kyosho, Zac, GQ, Kawahara, or Microsystem tires, but one of my friends had a fluke with the Kyosho's..... a few weeks ago his rear tire sepaparated from the rim. You could see there was no glue where it came apart. This could happen to anyone in mass production I guess. I will note he won the point race at our track last year on Jaco tires and is the fastest local racer at our track on nearly any tire he runs.
I run a Kyosho Evolva currently, but the cost of the red box tires prevents me from even wanting to try them. Kawahara and Zac are quite expensive for my wallet as well. I have not priced GQ's, and really to be honest, didn't even hear of Microsysytems till this post
A lot of big boy's run the Jaco's and that didn't even play into my decision. I'm an average Joe racer who likes good stuff and a good price. Jaco was an easy choice for me.
Jaco- I'll be the first here who is spending his own money to say that I will only purchase Jaco's
I find them an extremely attractive tire in all aspects. Strong new rims, good wear, good traction and as chunk resistant of a tire as they get. You can see they glue these bad boys real good.... the glue is visible between the rim and tire. At last years GLC I was pitted right across from Paulo and showed him that my rims were cracking around the rear axle pins. He took a set of my used rims and an axle pin to take back with him so the fit could be corrected. They are now perfectly fitting rims! Jack was kind enough to give me durometer info so I could purchase the correct style for my personal use. Best price/performance value in my book. Look in the trash can at any big event.... they are full of Jaco boxes- that tells you something.ATS- I've run these a few times in a pinch and had good results. Prices similar to Jaco's.
GRP- (GRP, FAST, Ennetti, etc..)- good wear, rims and traction. I've noticed GRP has amazingly accurate shore ratings on thier tires. However, way too expensive for the average racer..... crossed off my list.
Twister- I have not had great luck with these on my 1/8th scale in the past, but they were great in my sedan. The 1/8th Mugen/Kyosho style rear rims were way too sloppy and caused them to wear very quickly around the rear axle. It was impossible to set my car up using Twisters. I hear they have changed the rim design and they fit Mugen and Kyosho better on the axle now. I would run them again if the rims were truly fixed and I had a cause to switch from Jaco's. Omar is great to deal with..... just not during hurricane season..... LOL
I have personally not tried the Kyosho, Zac, GQ, Kawahara, or Microsystem tires, but one of my friends had a fluke with the Kyosho's..... a few weeks ago his rear tire sepaparated from the rim. You could see there was no glue where it came apart. This could happen to anyone in mass production I guess. I will note he won the point race at our track last year on Jaco tires and is the fastest local racer at our track on nearly any tire he runs.
I run a Kyosho Evolva currently, but the cost of the red box tires prevents me from even wanting to try them. Kawahara and Zac are quite expensive for my wallet as well. I have not priced GQ's, and really to be honest, didn't even hear of Microsysytems till this post
A lot of big boy's run the Jaco's and that didn't even play into my decision. I'm an average Joe racer who likes good stuff and a good price. Jaco was an easy choice for me.