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Old 07-02-2007, 04:26 PM   #1
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Default Sedan setup tips/theory for technical track...

I'm looking for some setup tips for the track I run on. Doesn't really matter what sedan you're running per se. Just think about how you would alter your setup for a track like this or share your setup, experience or thoughts.

Track is 225ft x 52ft. Traction is medium, surface is pretty smooth, but it's some type of asphalt aggregate. The inside layout changes from race to race, but the straight entry and exit remain pretty much remain the same. Below is the layout that I did for this past weekend's club race. In the 4 minute qualifiers, TQ did 12 laps.



I've run the RRR WCE and MTX-4 on this track, pretty much with the same results. On the MTX-4, front diff (30K front, 10K rear oil), front/rear swayblades flat. On the RRR, both front diff (30K front, 10K rear oil) and K Factory spool (10K rear oil), front/rear blades flat as well. Car is pretty neutral entering and exiting turns and if I nail the throttle hard on exit, the rear steps out a bit, but it's under control. Hardest shore I've been able to run in the rear is 40. I setup the camber so that the tires wear flat - 3 rear camber on the RRR; 3 left / 4 right rear camber on the MTX-4. I've been running the kit setup for the most part and because of the time constraints, I haven't been able to do a whole lot of setup testing. I pretty much focus on getting the engine tuned properly and getting in some practice before qualifying and the mains. The day's schedule isn't set, so it's hard to gauge exactly how much time you have to test something and then put it back.

IMO, I'm losing time braking or slowing down for the 180 degree turns. Could just be my driving style. 90 degree turns are not a problem.

Any suggestions on what I can do to carry more speed through the turns and deal with the transition through the chicanes?

Thanks!
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Old 07-02-2007, 04:41 PM   #2
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Rainer, although generally I do better one larger flowing tracks, I love this kind of technical track ... like the one you show here.

You're on the right track in terms of the light diff oils you use. I find that the lighter diff oil allows for faster corner speeds the way I drive it. You're also on the right track in that it depends a lot on your driving style and also the fast that you lose a lot of time braking and slowing down for the 180 deg turns.

For me I would first have the car using the lowest possible gear ratios, i.e. the smallest pinion I can find for the car. I also prefer a slower revving, hi-torque engine which points me to an OS.

As for the car, I will try to get away with as small a rear toe as possible and maybe 0.5 or even 0 toe up front. I would try to round the corners of the 180 but should I need to brake the small ratio allows me to take off faster.

I would also set the roll center which gives the fastest direction change and I would have the hardest spring possible for the front and rear shocks without sacrificing too much traction.

I also find that for technical tracks, I need to have as minimal overdrive as possible for the car to flow nicely around these corners and carry lots of speed. As for my last tip ... I'll PM you because its a wierd one ...
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Last edited by Sow&Steady; 07-02-2007 at 05:57 PM.
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Old 07-02-2007, 05:16 PM   #3
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Default eh?

counter clockwise...are you in Europe?
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Old 07-02-2007, 05:20 PM   #4
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do I{hear} a 3rd oneway & front flip-flop ???
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Old 07-02-2007, 05:58 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serpentjack View Post
do I{hear} a 3rd oneway & front flip-flop ???
Haven't tried it on a technical track yet but it could be a great thing to have!
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Old 07-02-2007, 08:21 PM   #6
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MTX-4, stock front spring and the gray rears, sometimes disconnect the front swaybar, take a old rear wing and trim it down a 1/4 inch, take out the spacers on the outside of the rear upper link, try the thick rear swaybar, use higher numbers on the rear droop gauges.

Keep the car with as little rear traction as you can get away with and as much front traction without the car traction rolling.
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Old 07-02-2007, 08:57 PM   #7
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you should consider smaller width. it will help the car to change direction faster and all caster clips to the rear that's help your car to attack more aggressively the corners
that's my opnion
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Old 07-02-2007, 10:16 PM   #8
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I'd run the car with low front RC, to make it more roll to handle those 180 deg turns and wider front width.
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Old 07-03-2007, 03:20 AM   #9
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Thanks for all the great tips guys. This definitely gives me some clear direction on what to try. I'll let you know the results.

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Old 07-03-2007, 03:23 AM   #10
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If you don't own either the RRR or MTX-4 and want to look at the kit setup sheets, here they are:

RRR WCE Basic Setup Sheet / MTX-4 Basic Setup Sheet
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Old 07-03-2007, 04:12 AM   #11
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There are many things that can help or hurt on a tight track like this one. Remember that the travel of the chassis is important. On small tight tracks maybe some more rear travel and a narrow front wheel base may help. Not sure what you have but the travel in the rear will help the car turn in better and the narrow wheel base in the front gives a quicker reaction. Also roll centers. Read up on the front and rear roll centers. If your car is stable you can raise the rear roll center or run less rear toe also. Less rear toe will give you more steering in the apex of the turn. You could also run a harder rear spring, but layed down more. This will help with the rotation. I do not drive the cars you have, but these are basic tips to help with any car. There is more, but this is some for now. Hope it helps. They are also set up books that help give good tips. I know Serpent has one, maybe you can get one from your manufacture or get the one from serpent. Make sure it is for sedans.

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Old 07-03-2007, 07:52 AM   #12
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Thanks DJ. Some very good advice.

It has taken me a while to get better at driving, engine tuning and racing. I think these things are finally coming together. Now I can focus on the setup. The cars handle pretty well, but not well enough for me to be really fast in the infield. Having a better setup should make the cars much easier to drive faster.

Last year, I spent way too much time testing new stuff. Seems like every race I was doing something different. New car parts, new car (2nd RRR, different configuration), new engine, new pipe, different plugs, different fuel, different tires, different front end, worn engine , etc., etc. Lot's of troubleshooting and lessons learned in each area, but only limited progress in each area as well.

On any given race day, we have about an hour to prepare for the qualifiers and an hour before the mains. That includes tuning the engine, practicing on the new layout, fixing stuff, getting the primary/backup car ready and getting in some setup testing. For me, that usually translates into only about 20 minutes of actual track time per hour and very little setup testing.

This year, I haven't been doing as much "new stuff" testing and it seems like I'm making better focused progress. Slowly, but things are coming along. Since my driving has improved, I don't crash and break the car anymore, so having a hot-standby ready hasn't been that important. I don't think I've had a backup car ready for the last five races. I'll probably do a lot of the setup testing on the backup car, so I don't have to worry about putting things back the way they were to race it.

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Old 07-03-2007, 11:46 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmdhawaii View Post
Thanks DJ. Some very good advice.

It has taken me a while to get better at driving, engine tuning and racing. I think these things are finally coming together. Now I can focus on the setup. The cars handle pretty well, but not well enough for me to be really fast in the infield. Having a better setup should make the cars much easier to drive faster.

Last year, I spent way too much time testing new stuff. Seems like every race I was doing something different. New car parts, new car (2nd RRR, different configuration), new engine, new pipe, different plugs, different fuel, different tires, different front end, worn engine , etc., etc. Lot's of troubleshooting and lessons learned in each area, but only limited progress in each area as well.

On any given race day, we have about an hour to prepare for the qualifiers and an hour before the mains. That includes tuning the engine, practicing on the new layout, fixing stuff, getting the primary/backup car ready and getting in some setup testing. For me, that usually translates into only about 20 minutes of actual track time per hour and very little setup testing.

This year, I haven't been doing as much "new stuff" testing and it seems like I'm making better focused progress. Slowly, but things are coming along. Since my driving has improved, I don't crash and break the car anymore, so having a hot-standby ready hasn't been that important. I don't think I've had a backup car ready for the last five races. I'll probably do a lot of the setup testing on the backup car, so I don't have to worry about putting things back the way they were to race it.

You can also ask one of the fast guys if you can take a few laps with his car. When I did this, I realized how far off my setup was. At first, his car seemd soo slow and unresponsive handling wise. After a few minutes I pulled the car off and we talked. He drove my car and made some really good suggestions. The most importaint one was to reduce the steering exp. I had too much throw which scrubbed too much speed at full lock. Fixing this also increased amount of transmitter input to get through a corner which allowed greater steering precision. Next, my car was too twichy to be consistant. Anyway, that few minutes of interaction jumped my learing curve tremendously.
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Old 07-03-2007, 02:23 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rapid Roy View Post
You can also ask one of the fast guys if you can take a few laps with his car. When I did this, I realized how far off my setup was. At first, his car seemd soo slow and unresponsive handling wise. After a few minutes I pulled the car off and we talked. He drove my car and made some really good suggestions. The most importaint one was to reduce the steering exp. I had too much throw which scrubbed too much speed at full lock. Fixing this also increased amount of transmitter input to get through a corner which allowed greater steering precision. Next, my car was too twichy to be consistant. Anyway, that few minutes of interaction jumped my learing curve tremendously.
Last year, one of the top guys at our track sort of became my driving coach. He spent some time with me on the drivers stand and would critique my heats. Whenever he drove my RRR (he drives a MTX-4), he would always hand the controller back to me and say something like, "The car is good. It's you."

I don't mind letting other people drive my car. I'm a bit nervous about driving other people's car - but if offered, I will certainly give their car a try.

Thanks
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Old 07-03-2007, 02:25 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmdhawaii View Post
Last year, one of the top guys at our track sort of became my driving coach. He spent some time with me on the drivers stand and would critique my heats. Whenever he drove my RRR (he drives a MTX-4), he would always hand the controller back to me and say something like, "The car is good. It's you."

I don't mind letting other people drive my car. I'm a bit nervous about driving other people's car - but if offered, I will certainly give their car a try.

Thanks
You can drive my car the next time you come to Miami, FL.
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