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Old 06-30-2007, 10:15 PM   #1
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Some general aero questions not related to a specific body. Any input appreciated!

1. Mounting of wing forward or backwards on a touring body. Where do most people mount their bodies? Rear most for larger tracks?

2. The inner spill plates that some protoform bodies have. Has anybody experimented with these?

3. Cutting the holes in the rear wings that are marked. Quite a few bodies come with rear wings that are marked to have holes cut into them. Any experiences with these?

Thanks!
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Old 07-01-2007, 03:46 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by AMGRacer View Post
Some general aero questions not related to a specific body. Any input appreciated!

1. Mounting of wing forward or backwards on a touring body. Where do most people mount their bodies? Rear most for larger tracks?
Depends on track layout too. Some large tracks are technical and will need normal mounting position.

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2. The inner spill plates that some protoform bodies have. Has anybody experimented with these?
Some rules don't allow it. I did experiment and I didn't feel any appreciable difference with or without.

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3. Cutting the holes in the rear wings that are marked. Quite a few bodies come with rear wings that are marked to have holes cut into them. Any experiences with these?

Thanks!
I did experiment with these too and if cut out, increases top speed but it makes the car loose than without cutting out.
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Old 07-01-2007, 04:17 AM   #3
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Thanks for the feedback. I too have tried some of these things out, but at a relatively low grip and slow track. I barely noticed the rear wing position, and could not tell the difference with the spill plates or the rear holes in the wing either!

Anybody else have some experience with this stuff?

How about moving the body position back or forward? Does 2mm forward add much steering?

I have also read about some pro drivers removing the front foam bumpers for an aero advantage, can anybody confirm this one?
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Old 07-03-2007, 05:03 AM   #4
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Seems like nobody knows much more about this??
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Old 07-03-2007, 05:36 AM   #5
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moving the rear wing around is different on some bodies as to the way it reacts. I believe talking to Dale at protoform, the Caddy body, moving the wing forard increased rear downforce and back to give more steering, but most other bodies are just the opposite. Farther back, more rear downforce, more forward, less rear downforce. As for the splitters that go in the middle of the wing, I've tested with and without them. On a car that has a very little or no front toe, and with tracks that are low traction or very loose, it helps with straight line stablility a little, and keeping the rear from sliding around during corner entry to mid cornering. (thses are from my experiance only and my results were determined by the setup of the car)

As for the holes in the rear spoiler, yes, they can improve speed by less drag, but another thing that I have noticed is that it can help free up the rear of the car(less overall grip) however, I do not remove this anymore, it is more of a pain for me to remove than the benefit gained
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Old 07-03-2007, 06:00 AM   #6
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moving the rear wing around is different on some bodies as to the way it reacts. I believe talking to Dale at protoform, the Caddy body, moving the wing forard increased rear downforce and back to give more steering, but most other bodies are just the opposite. Farther back, more rear downforce, more forward, less rear downforce. As for the splitters that go in the middle of the wing, I've tested with and without them. On a car that has a very little or no front toe, and with tracks that are low traction or very loose, it helps with straight line stablility a little, and keeping the rear from sliding around during corner entry to mid cornering. (thses are from my experiance only and my results were determined by the setup of the car)

As for the holes in the rear spoiler, yes, they can improve speed by less drag, but another thing that I have noticed is that it can help free up the rear of the car(less overall grip) however, I do not remove this anymore, it is more of a pain for me to remove than the benefit gained
Great stuff man. I will be testing a few of these things in the next day or so myself.

The interesting thing I noticed was that very few of the pro drivers cars that I have seen seem to have anything particularly fancy in terms of aero mods to bodies.
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Old 07-03-2007, 07:00 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by rcfoolz View Post
moving the rear wing around is different on some bodies as to the way it reacts. I believe talking to Dale at protoform, the Caddy body, moving the wing forard increased rear downforce and back to give more steering, but most other bodies are just the opposite. Farther back, more rear downforce, more forward, less rear downforce. As for the splitters that go in the middle of the wing, I've tested with and without them. On a car that has a very little or no front toe, and with tracks that are low traction or very loose, it helps with straight line stablility a little, and keeping the rear from sliding around during corner entry to mid cornering. (thses are from my experiance only and my results were determined by the setup of the car)

As for the holes in the rear spoiler, yes, they can improve speed by less drag, but another thing that I have noticed is that it can help free up the rear of the car(less overall grip) however, I do not remove this anymore, it is more of a pain for me to remove than the benefit gained
Slightly off-topic, is the Protoform Caddy ROAR legal? I am looking for something different (i.e. - non-Stratus or Type-M). I have a Nissan Altima body but I do not believe it is legal for racing. Thanks.
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Old 07-03-2007, 12:44 PM   #8
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I play with the wing a bit. I like to raise the wing into the airstream. I use the protoform molded wings and they do nail the rear down more if raised by 3mm. Moving back and forth does also increase/decrease downforce.
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Old 07-04-2007, 04:32 AM   #9
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Many years ago I did some testing with wings, tried many things on it, moving front/rear higher/lower, cutting them, making holes and up to making serious surgery on the wing removing wing chord and making a gurney lip on it. This was done on very ancient ProtoForm Chrysler Stratus bodies but they apply to all, since aerodinamics doesn't know about body brands and yes about shapes.

Moving front/rear the wing: Moving to the front gave me a little more turn-in rather than more steering, but freed a little the rear end making it a little more nervous. Good for technical tracks where people liked more the Alfa 156 and similar bodies.. If you moved it to the rear, the rear end felt planted, but if you end too far (up to where your rule book permits) in fact you were applying to much downforce on the rear and freeing the front making the steering more imprecise.

Moving the wing up/down: Wing needs a stream of 'uncontaminated air' and the roof of the car, their shape has so much to do about this.

Seems weird, just because it seems to work just at the wrong direction of the 1/1 cars. A much rounded roof like the one on the 300M gave too much turbulence and lots of dirty air to the wing, reducing their effect a more straight and angulous roof like the one on the Honda Accord and Crysler Stratus didn't broke so much the air to the wing making it more effective.

Raising the wing, makes it to trap more 'clean air' making it more effective and gave more grip but too more drag. Lowering and hiding it on the body gave me less drag but too a less performing wing.

Cutting holes on the wing: Removes downforce because you're in fact giving to the air a place where to escape from the it. Removed so much effect of the wing, needing to raise it to perform almost equal than the original. Is a way to remove drag if you have a very confident setup and you're on a track where you're lots of time at full throttle.

Last but not least... Cutting wing chord and adding a gurney lip at the trailing edge. Whew! this gave me a hard time with a tech inspector who was willing to be a smart ass telling me that my wing was illegal. Nothing on the rulebook says anything against it, it gives a set of dimensions and meanwhile your wing fits into them is legal.

First of all I did is to make a lip of about 1.5mm on the trailing edge with the standard wing chord. What I found? Massive downforce it gave me lots of grip at the rear leveraging the front end and removing a lot of steering precission. Discarded the lip (cutted it) and did another with the remaining wing.

Needed to do this several times until I got a sweet point (don't remember how many times I did it...maybe 4 o 5 times) where the downforce and the drag were at a reasonable amount. Needed to move that wing to the front just a little and what I got? a quicker car on the straights because the wing had so little drag that was noticeable (no other change... motor was freshly cut and rebuilt with the same ratio) and got more grip and stability on the turns too. Side dams just play too their own role on the wing, see many people that simply discard them.

There's a lot of play with the wings, you only need to know just a little of Aerodynamics and make it play on your side.
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Old 07-04-2007, 10:06 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by va_connoisseur View Post
Slightly off-topic, is the Protoform Caddy ROAR legal? I am looking for something different (i.e. - non-Stratus or Type-M). I have a Nissan Altima body but I do not believe it is legal for racing. Thanks.
The Cad CTS is on ROAR approved body list with a an approval through 8/5/07. I just began running this body three weeks ago, have two race days with it (on two different tracks) and am very pleased with its handling. I get lots of overall downforce on the starights. Steering is precise, as well as turnin. The rear end stays planted through fast sweepers (meaning with reasonable traction I don't let off the throttle, just WOT through the sweeper). At first glance the body looks a little bulky, but the aerodynamic performance feels just the opposite. The car sticks to the track with this body. I purchased a second one and am masking it up for painting. It has a more down force than the Opel Vectra and feels a little quicker down the straightaway. In a couple of weeks I'll have a Stratus 3.1 body ready so that I can compare them back to back on the same day.
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