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Old 06-16-2003, 02:20 PM   #7876
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Unhappy Race results

Raced this past weekend on the same temporary track as last time, medium grip. I made the changes to my set-up as suggested; stiffeneed up the springs (Fantom 1.7mm, red springs all the way around), went with 40wt in all the shocks. Put in a tad moore droop in the rear and I still get poor turn in coming off the fast sections off power. Seemed to be an improvement in faster corners but under deceleration and braking from high speeds into a tight slow corner still pushing. I'm braking at the same point the NTC3 and Mugens are. Any more suggestions.

Would there be any advantage in softening up the front sway bar to give the outside tire a bit more grip?
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Old 06-17-2003, 01:35 AM   #7877
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Default Re: 24T Conversion

Quote:
Originally posted by Bounty Hunter
Basically the 24T conversion adds 5 tooth rollout to the internal drive train ratio (not sure what it is after the conversion). So on tracks that have a ling straightaway like 180+ ft, you dont have gear up massively to keep from winding your motor out. Of course this also depends on what motor you are running and how you are running it (i.e. Tune setup). I personally am running the 24T conversion with a 15/49 1st gear and 19/45 2nd gear at Revelation here in Southern CA. I was told that the internal ratio was like 2:1 but I am not sure. So the extra 5 tooth rollout is the reason why your top end looks easier to attain.

What is the part number for this converson?
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Old 06-17-2003, 01:51 AM   #7878
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That shell looks really slick Taylor-Racing.
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Old 06-17-2003, 03:10 AM   #7879
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Quote:
Originally posted by Taylor-Racing
Thanks finchy.
I should have asked . . . I presume the tyre split for the O.D. pulleys is 3mm, yeah?
The split to be exactly 1:1 ratio is actually 4.5mm. I usually find that a 3mm split (ie 3mm smaller front than rear) with the 25T pulley is great on a large high grip track (ie. Brendale). This is basically a 1.5mm split (fronts LARGER) for those using 27T front pulley.

The front overdrive seems to pull the car thru corners on power more nicely.
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Old 06-17-2003, 03:15 AM   #7880
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Default Re: Race results

Quote:
Originally posted by KingWillie
Raced this past weekend on the same temporary track as last time, medium grip. I made the changes to my set-up as suggested; stiffeneed up the springs (Fantom 1.7mm, red springs all the way around), went with 40wt in all the shocks. Put in a tad moore droop in the rear and I still get poor turn in coming off the fast sections off power. Seemed to be an improvement in faster corners but under deceleration and braking from high speeds into a tight slow corner still pushing. I'm braking at the same point the NTC3 and Mugens are. Any more suggestions.

Would there be any advantage in softening up the front sway bar to give the outside tire a bit more grip?
Well the understeer can be coming from a few sources, one is either not enough or too much weight transfer to the front wheels, and the second source is possibly that the front tires are not gripping enough to the track surface.

The "easiest" way to get the fixed is to go for more grippy tires. Try that first.
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Old 06-17-2003, 04:48 AM   #7881
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Quote:
Originally posted by Manticore
the front roll center has become adjustable with remove/add of the spacer that is attached to the front upper a-arm.

as for swing shaft, it is noticed that the front a-arms have become longer and that's why it comes with a whole new front oneway and swing shaft.

the 3D clutch (not the 2speed clutch) is not as good as mugen clutch i.e. kyosho has to improve it !

Ahhh, . . . OK.
I didn't realise the front arms had changed - couldn't figure it out from the pic's.

Below is your list of parts in the upgrade kit. I figured the last three items were for the 2speed, no?

Presumably the Kyosho pinions fit and mesh correctly on the Mugen clutch, yeah?

Originally posted by Manticore
7075 Hard Main Chassis
Carbon Upper Deck
Adjustable roll centre Front Bulkhead
Servo Saver Set
Tower Bar
1st Spur Gear
2nd Spur Gear
Front One-way
Front Swing Shaft
Mid Shaft
Front Suspension Plate
1st Pinion Gear
2nd Pinion Gear
clutch Ball Bearing
2nd Clutch Shoe
2nd Clutch Weight
2nd Clutch Spring
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Old 06-17-2003, 05:46 AM   #7882
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Quote:
Originally posted by KingWillie
Sparksy, my experience comes from my son's Reflex and the chassis I ordered specifically for my RR. I never heard this before about the placement of the holes. Thanks for letting me know though. I'll have to compare it to my original V1RR chasis. We have replaced the K-Factory pulleys and belts on my sons car as the pulleys just would not stop separatnig and well the belts just plain suck.
Have any other forum members had issues with K-Factory parts? Just curious, not trying to cause an up roar. Thanks
Our car is a very early VoneR. Most of the additions are K Factory since they were probably the only ones available at the time.
For what it's worth, I'm not that fussed on the chassis, either. It's a bit of a lump, but it's still straight & flat - that's the main thing. I haven't noticed the holes being off, but I don't have a standard chassis to compare. It has measured up OK, on the couple of occasions I have done a ground up rebuild. The Graphite radio plate is OK, though there are lighter ones. The low CG tank is really good. The alloy radio plate supports and rear brace is good. The front A/R bar is not good - it doesn't have ecentrics to permit equal droop setting. I'm just lucky the chassis isn't tweaked or I'd be stuffed. The rear A/R bar is just passable now that I've drilled it out to accept a larger dia wire bar.
I guess I'm not being all very flattering, and if spending the money today, I would likely buy some different things.
But I think everyone agrees - lose the alloy pulleys.
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Old 06-17-2003, 06:07 AM   #7883
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Quote:
Originally posted by Taylor-Racing
The front A/R bar is not good - it doesn't have ecentrics to permit equal droop setting. I'm just lucky the chassis isn't tweaked or I'd be stuffed.
Do us a favor when you have some time... take the front roll bar off and set the droop... so its nice and square with only the weight of the arms. Then re-fit the ARB and re-check.

You might be surprised just how much difference not having the ecentric makes. I could never get it to be even side to side with the K-factory one.
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Old 06-17-2003, 06:17 AM   #7884
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Quote:
Originally posted by AMGRacer
The split to be exactly 1:1 ratio is actually 4.5mm. I usually find that a 3mm split (ie 3mm smaller front than rear) with the 25T pulley is great on a large high grip track (ie. Brendale). This is basically a 1.5mm split (fronts LARGER) for those using 27T front pulley.

The front overdrive seems to pull the car thru corners on power more nicely.
Thanks, AMG.

Gawd, this is getting complicated, now.
For some background, we normally run (with the standard VoneR) about 1 - 2mm taller rears.
The thing that got me started on this O.D. venture was a wish to better maintain F/R tyre wear over a longer distance - essentially to minimise handling changes.
There are two reasons for this. We had this Enduro event looming, and we are also running softer tyres than usual and getting more total grip.
We ran 35/35 last weekend and it was good - but of course, there's a wear penalty.
I don't think we've ever run with fronts (technically) larger than rears - well not intentionally, anyway.
I guess I'll need to experiment a bit.
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Old 06-17-2003, 06:25 AM   #7885
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Quote:
Originally posted by Taylor-Racing
Thanks, AMG.

Gawd, this is getting complicated, now.
For some background, we normally run (with the standard VoneR) about 1 - 2mm taller rears.
The thing that got me started on this O.D. venture was a wish to better maintain F/R tyre wear over a longer distance - essentially to minimise handling changes.
There are two reasons for this. We had this Enduro event looming, and we are also running softer tyres than usual and getting more total grip.
We ran 35/35 last weekend and it was good - but of course, there's a wear penalty.
I don't think we've ever run with fronts (technically) larger than rears - well not intentionally, anyway.
I guess I'll need to experiment a bit.
Mr Taylor

If u don't want to have too large of the split then try using 18/27 on the side pulley, its give u tyre split around 1.5mm on 63mm rears.

TL
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Old 06-17-2003, 06:33 AM   #7886
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Quote:
Originally posted by sparksy
Do us a favor when you have some time... take the front roll bar off and set the droop... so its nice and square with only the weight of the arms. Then re-fit the ARB and re-check.

You might be surprised just how much difference not having the ecentric makes. I could never get it to be even side to side with the K-factory one.
Yep, I've done exactly that.
As I said, I'm just lucky that it's been OK.
I have needed to fiddle with the "hand-shake" bars on occasion when changing the setting to ensure that it stays equal. As a result, I don't like changing the front bar setting at the track. Grrr . . .

Actually, I just remembered - there is another good reason not to buy the K Factory front A/R bar. It sits lower than the RR bar and I needed to Dremel a sizable "relief' in the top of the chassis to enable it to clear. i.e. under brakes the bar hits the chassis - or it used to.

I was going to get a 3 Racing one or something, but might await the EVO upgrade to see what that might require.
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Old 06-17-2003, 06:41 AM   #7887
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Yeah.. After having all the shiny bits on mine... and a few cars later, I have come to the conclusion that there is no need to go aluminium for the holders. They realistically do nothing. Well, that said, the only time I think they are for more than looks, is when you have the blade at its stiffest setting, and its not stiff enough sue to the marginal flex in the plastic holder. But they sure do look nice.....
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Old 06-17-2003, 06:50 AM   #7888
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Quote:
Originally posted by tl2111
Mr Taylor

If u don't want to have too large of the split then try using 18/27 on the side pulley, its give u tyre split around 1.5mm on 63mm rears.

TL
Thanks, tl2111.

18/27 - that's interesting. Presumably the RR side belt will accomodate this with appropriate tensioner adjustment?

I guess the thing I really don't know is, what tyre split will maintain as near as possible to equal F/R tyre wear - all other things being equal.

. . . and what's with this "Mr Taylor" . . . very formal . . I thought I had you guys fooled.
Feel free to use my real name if you like - Gavin, Gav . . whatever.
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Old 06-17-2003, 06:57 AM   #7889
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Quote:
Originally posted by Taylor-Racing
I guess the thing I really don't know is, what tyre split will maintain as near as possible to equal F/R tyre wear - all other things being equal.
I realy dont think there is. Unless you are prepaired to use a lot of tires throwing them out when the go under rollout size.

I have my 235mm set with a 3mm split. so in a 30MIN final, they wear as close as possiable...

they then become the qualifying tires for the next meet.... and a fresh set put on for the next final. Works out very well, as I get one race day from one set of tires, and am not chasing the perfect tire diameter throught the day.
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Old 06-17-2003, 07:15 AM   #7890
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Quote:
Originally posted by sparksy
I realy dont think there is. Unless you are prepaired to use a lot of tires throwing them out when the go under rollout size.

I have my 235mm set with a 3mm split. so in a 30MIN final, they wear as close as possiable...

they then become the qualifying tires for the next meet.... and a fresh set put on for the next final. Works out very well, as I get one race day from one set of tires, and am not chasing the perfect tire diameter throught the day.
Hmmm, OK. Is your 235mm using 4WD?
Also, the 235mm's use much wider rears anyway, yeah, albeit quite soft, I believe.
I don't know if you still use the wide rears if you convert it to 4WD.

Part of my thinking here is to be able to utilise a reasonable number of tyres to their fullest, also. Essentially, with a small pair of fronts, we can't use them in a long main because the appropriate rears will be on the plastic by the end of it.
I'm thinking that, for a final, I can change to the O.D. pulleys, use those fronts and some, say, 3mm larger rears and get the best of both worlds.
As they say in "The Castle" - maybe I'm dreamin'.
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