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Old 11-11-2002, 08:10 PM   #5191
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ok gotcha.. rite now imma jus go window shopping for the cheapest rr there is ne inputs?
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Old 11-11-2002, 08:16 PM   #5192
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Default Centax Clutch setup

ok guyz, somebody sent this to me and I've used it with good effect so I'm going to post it for you guyz. I couldn't find the link for it so I typed it all back in from my printout so forgive any spelling errors as I'm too lazy to proofread


Axial Clutch Assembly made easy
Mike Queller, speedline


While there are many different types of axial clutches available today there seems to be many different ways that the manuf. recommend assembly. What I have found is that there is a basic setup that seems to work on ALL of these types of clutches leaving just the fine "tweaking" for special circumstances.

HOW THEY WORK

Before we begin let's discuss the action of the clutch. Most clutches have a flywheel that allows some sort of actuator to move at an anble causing an outward force to the rear of a pressure plate which has the single clutch "shoe" keyed to it. This pad or shoe engages with a clutch bell which is secured at the end of the crankshaft pilot so that it will not be pushed off the shaft. To adjust this engagement, there is an inside adjustment nut pressing a very heavy spring against the shoe allowing the user to engage the shoe later (clockwise) or earlier (counterclockwise).

ASSEMBLY

1)Debur all parts. Pay special attention to the edges of the sliding actuators and the inside of the clutch bell where the adjustment access hole has been drilled. If this is rough then the adjustment nut could catch and self adjust. (PD note: on the kawahara clutch I've had this happen because of the diameter of the spring. I lightly dremmeled the inside of the spring to get rid of this.)

2)Place the collet on the shaft making sure it is fully seated against the front bearing of the engine. Hold the crankshaft firmly and use the blade of a screwdriver pressed against the collet edge to insure it is on all the way.

3)Install the flywheel and then the flywheel nut. Tighten the flywheel nut about 1/4 turn after it is snug. The flywheel should be snug.

4)Put a drop of high temp oil (Racer's Choice - Hy-spin #7015) on each actuator and where it will ride on the flywheel. If the clutch uses a return spring on the actuators, use it. The clutch will disengage faster if this spring is in place. (PD note: this oil tip works).

5)Smear a coat of high temp oil on the rear of the pressure plate and slide it on next followed by the shoe with the spring cup already pressed in firmly. Spin on the adjustment nut until 1-2 threads are showing on the end of the flywheel nut.

6)Install the inside bearing into the clutch bell and place it on the shaft holding the entire assembly upright. Spin the bell.
-If the shoe touches the bell go to step 7.
-If the shoe does not then remove the flywheel nut, file the threaded end, reinstall, and check as many tims as it takes until the bell TOUCHES the shoe.

7)Now that bell is touching the shoe install 5mm shims, .010" (.025mm) thick, between the nut and the clutch bell bearing until the bell spins freely. When it just spins freely, add one extra .010" shim. The bell-to-shoe clearance is now a set distance. No guesswork.

8) Before installing the clutch bell check to see if the bell has one or two adjustment access holes. If there is only one, drill another halfway around on the other side from the existing hole to make it easier to adjust later. (PD Note: this really helps). Install the clutch bearings. The end of the crankshaft should be slightly recessed below the outer surface of the outside clutch bearing. If not, dissassemble the clutch and add 7mm shims between the collet and the engine front bearing to achieve this. This can be different for all engine makes.

9)Install the thrust bearing pilot with the thrust bearing and set this clearance as close to zero as possible without binding the clutch bearings. Be sure to use a high temp greast (Racer's choice #7016) on the thrust bearing and re-lube this bearing daily. (PD Note: I use ronnie's grease now and mugen supergrease and lube every run).

It is recommended to use a double-ended threaded pilot (picco #589) if available. To install a double-ended threaded pilot, place two thin nuts on the non-crankshaft end and tighten (jam) them against each other. Now thread the other end into the crankshaft with a little red loctite and tighten by using those jammed nuts. Remove them by holding one while loosening the other. Using a threaded pilot allows easy endplay adjustment. Just tighten the nut snugly and back off 1/4 turn. Replace the nuts every race weekend for insurance. (PD Note - haven't seen a need to try this yet).

TRACK ADJUSTMENT

Setting the clutch can be tricky. Start the car, warm it up, and place the car on the ground. Holding the car firmly rev the engine and watch the pressure plate move. The engine should rev slightly and then you should feel a jerk in the car. If not move the adjustment nut until this happens. Adjustment is made by inserting a wire (PD NOTE: I use small allen key) through the clutch bell access hole until it engages the slot of the adjustment nut. Rocking the flywheel back and forth should help with this. Once the adjuster has been located, later engagement (more slip) is achieved by tightening the nut clockwise (PD NOTE: or turning the flywheel counter-clockwise). If earlier is desired loosen the nut counter-clockwise (less slip). Make these adjustments in 1/4 turn increments. The rest is ppersonal taste.

If you are in a real testing mood then you may want to increase you shoe-to-bell clearance and make comparisons as well as increasing or decreasing your endplay adjustment. Just a word of caution though. If you go too far you will ruin actuators, bearings, shoes, or all of the above. Be your own judge.
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Old 11-11-2002, 08:41 PM   #5193
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Centax Clutch
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Old 11-11-2002, 08:49 PM   #5194
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Thanks for the info Patella and Manti. Some gnarly tech/geek info. This stuff can get complex.
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Old 11-11-2002, 08:52 PM   #5195
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Thanks for the part number and pic DCR1TWO!
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Old 11-11-2002, 10:37 PM   #5196
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Thanks for all the Centax clutch info.

-Sushi Boy
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Old 11-12-2002, 12:11 AM   #5197
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Default Re: Centax Clutch setup

Quote:
Originally posted by patelladragger


Be sure to use a high temp greast (Racer's choice #7016) on the thrust bearing and re-lube this bearing daily. (PD Note: I use ronnie's grease now and mugen supergrease and lube every run).

It is recommended to use a double-ended threaded pilot (picco #589) if available. To install a double-ended threaded pilot, place two thin nuts on the non-crankshaft end and tighten (jam) them against each other. Now thread the other end into the crankshaft with a little red loctite and tighten by using those jammed nuts. Remove them by holding one while loosening the other. Using a threaded pilot allows easy endplay adjustment. Just tighten the nut snugly and back off 1/4 turn. Replace the nuts every race weekend for insurance. (PD Note - haven't seen a need to try this yet).


Wow...there seem lots of work to do during the installation...!
And gotta grease the thrust bearing daily and even after every run...!!!

I dont quite get it on the part it was mentioned to use a double-ended threaded pilot (picco #589)..... -> what's this step for?

BTW, how do we compare the car performance with and without centax?

Where can i get the 'high temp greast (Racer's choice #7016)' ?
Any other grease does the same job?

cheers

Last edited by RClover; 11-12-2002 at 12:14 AM.
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Old 11-12-2002, 01:18 AM   #5198
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Patella, are all the things mentioned in the article you printed must do's, or are they more for the detail oriented tuners who want absolute perfection?
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Old 11-12-2002, 01:50 AM   #5199
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Quote:
Originally posted by calimassive
Patella, are all the things mentioned in the article you printed must do's, or are they more for the detail oriented tuners who want absolute perfection?
The article is a bit over the top in some areas, but if you follow it you will get a perfect centax.

I only lube the thruster 1 time per meet for example and it has lasted 10 months now.
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Old 11-12-2002, 06:03 AM   #5200
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Quote:
This is incorrect. The Mugen clutch will work properly and also mesh properly, I have been using both style of gears for over 12 months. Both Mugen and Kyosho uses 32 pitch gearing so the mesh should be perfect.
I realise the pitch is supposed to be the same, but if you run a mugen pinion gear over a mugen spur, it is better matched if you run a voner pinion over a mugen spur. I run an MTX2, I find the Kyosho pinions wear faster than my MTX ones. My housemate runs a VoneRR and finds the MTX pinions wear faster than his Kyosho pinions on the VoneRR.
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Old 11-12-2002, 07:56 AM   #5201
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On another thread there was a short discussion about Kenji Osaka using a .15 one piece novarossi pipe on a .12 novarossi engine on his MTX-2, obviously now MTX-3. Someone said that the reason for this is beccause it gives better low end. I guess it cant be all that bad of an idea since Kenji Osaka apparently is doing this, but what do u guys think of this idea? Is this common?
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Old 11-12-2002, 08:22 AM   #5202
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Default Re: Re: Centax Clutch setup

Quote:
Originally posted by RClover
Wow...there seem lots of work to do during the installation...!
And gotta grease the thrust bearing daily and even after every run...!!!

I dont quite get it on the part it was mentioned to use a double-ended threaded pilot (picco #589)..... -> what's this step for?

BTW, how do we compare the car performance with and without centax?

Where can i get the 'high temp greast (Racer's choice #7016)' ?
Any other grease does the same job?

cheers

yeah well the double threaded pilot deal is so you can adjust the endplay without taking the clutch apart. I doubt I'll ever do it because it's only one screw to get at everything you need to adjust endplay anyway.

All the rest of the stuff though isn't that much work, actually I worked harder trying to set mine up before I followed those steps because I was taking them apart and re-assembling them so many times to get them right.

On the high-temp grease I just use high-temp bearing oil or Tribo Comm drops for electric cars. For the thrust bearing the ronnie's grease works great and you can get it at www.ashfordhobby.com. I meant to type I use ronnie's OR mugen grease, they both do the job. Because I use kawa centax and parts aren't available yet I'm extra careful with keeping the thrust lubed so AMG's right every run probably is over the top...but I'd rather err on that side for now.
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Old 11-12-2002, 08:34 AM   #5203
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Default Re: Re: Which pipe?

Quote:
Originally posted by patelladragger
Since you mentioned X15 I'm assuming you're not needing to be ROAR legal.

See if you can get your hands on a Nova mega ART 2686 inline .15 turbo pipe. It's long and the manifold opening is for a .15 big block so you'll have to use two exhaust gaskets- but believe me - this thing rocks!!!

Remember this discussion Cali about a month ago? I told you guys a put a .15 pipe on a collari 5 port with RB carb and the thing is friggin ballistic - it's noticeably faster than any modified or otherwise .12 I've driven. The car rockets out of corners like crazy and I've got 18/22 pinions on that clutch bell and let's not even talk about what happens when it hits midrange....CYA!!!.

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Old 11-12-2002, 09:09 AM   #5204
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Default Re: Re: Re: Centax Clutch setup

Quote:
Originally posted by patelladragger

On the high-temp grease I just use high-temp bearing oil or Tribo Comm drops for electric cars. For the thrust bearing the ronnie's grease works great and you can get it at www.ashfordhobby.com.
Yo...thanks patelladragger...
i think i'll be getting the Kyosho Centax as there are more part support than Kawa...

Cheers mate.....
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Old 11-12-2002, 09:11 AM   #5205
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Patella, now that you mention it, I do remember that, but I forget the details. Was there absolutley no downside to using a .15 pipe and exactly which pipe did you use?
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