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Old 10-05-2001, 10:10 PM   #151
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Originally posted by Manticore


The floating blocks inside the diff will lock up the gears under heavy spin
This is what I don't understand. Are floating blocks expanded by heat generated from the gears? Or the included lube can help the gears and floating block to generate more heat?

BTW, I don't think the gear and floating blocks are made of carbide. They look like high speed steel to me.
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Old 10-05-2001, 10:56 PM   #152
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Quote:
Originally posted by White cat


This is what I don't understand. Are floating blocks expanded by heat generated from the gears? Or the included lube can help the gears and floating block to generate more heat?

BTW, I don't think the gear and floating blocks are made of carbide. They look like high speed steel to me.
i dont think the little bottle included is not lube but kind of friction fluid that will increase friction. what do you think?
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Old 10-05-2001, 11:26 PM   #153
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Quote:
Originally posted by Manticore


i dont think the little bottle included is not lube but kind of friction fluid that will increase friction. what do you think?
I also don't think the black "lube" is regular lube. Friction fluid? Hmmm.....but silicone diff lube also provides friction. I think it is some kind of coolant fluid that cool down the floating block and gears. Just like those fluid for mills and lathes. I think the LSD will take a long time to "unlock" if the fluid is not used.
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Old 10-06-2001, 05:10 AM   #154
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Originally posted by nitro dave
sure is, its the best track in australia, an i only live 20mins away....how lucky am i
Hey Dave, when are you going to become a member ?

If you gonna show off Moorebank, use good pic's

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Old 10-06-2001, 05:45 AM   #155
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Quote:
Originally posted by Manticore
mauler,

the instruction manual you quoted below is for MTX2. the Kawaraha diff for V1R doesnt come with a derlin pulley and you need to adapt the stock pulley and of cuz the whole set diff for V1R will be cheaper.
Sorry, my mistake over there...

By the way White cat, I don't think the silicon diff lube we use is in any way friction fluid, conversely, it is still a lubricant but of a different viscosity... The higher the viscosity, the harder is it for the gears to overcome the viscous effects...

I'm not sure about this but I think if the black lube is not used, the LSD would engage earlier as it does not have to overcome any other viscous before it engages? But definitely, by no means the LSD works by friction...If it does, I think we would get another new one real soon....

What do u guys think?
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Old 10-06-2001, 06:11 AM   #156
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mauler


Sorry, my mistake over there...

By the way White cat, I don't think the silicon diff lube we use is in any way friction fluid, conversely, it is still a lubricant but of a different viscosity... The higher the viscosity, the harder is it for the gears to overcome the viscous effects...

I'm not sure about this but I think if the black lube is not used, the LSD would engage earlier as it does not have to overcome any other viscous before it engages? But definitely, by no means the LSD works by friction...If it does, I think we would get another new one real soon....

What do u guys think?
Just out of curiosity, is there any "friction fluid"? Both Kyosho and Kawahara LSD work by friction. Kyosho has 4 floating blocks along with gears and Kawahara has a clutch. I am not sure which type works better and last longer.

I still want to find out what that black lube is.
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Old 10-06-2001, 06:46 AM   #157
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Quote:
Originally posted by White cat


Just out of curiosity, is there any "friction fluid"? Both Kyosho and Kawahara LSD work by friction. Kyosho has 4 floating blocks along with gears and Kawahara has a clutch. I am not sure which type works better and last longer.

I still want to find out what that black lube is.
Friction is a no-no for most mechanical devices...There are some exceptions of course... But as for the gear systems, all designs have a tendancy towards low friction and higher torque transmission. As for a "friction fluid", I don't think it is used in our LSD here...

I guess the two different LSDs we're talking have each their advantages. The clutch system is the simpliest and yet efficient system... As for the Kyosho floating blocks, I'm not too sure...

If you are really interested on knowing what the black lube is...there is a simple but crude way to find out... Get a crucible under a furnace and get a few drops of the liquid on it... if it dries to a sticky mess, it might be some form of petroleum based lube... but if u were to see shiny specks, it might be silicon based... but still, I don't know if this works... perhaps White cat, you could give it a try and tell us the results?

Since we're on the topic of LSD now, I might as well provide some abstract below...

Clutch-Type Limited Slip Differential

The clutch-type LSD is probably the most common version of the limited slip differential. This type of LSD has all of the same components as an open differential, but it adds a spring pack and a set of clutches. Some of these have a cone clutch that is just like the synchronizers in a manual transmission.

The spring pack pushes the side gears against the clutches, which are attached to the cage. Both side gears spin with the cage when both wheels are moving at the same speed, and the clutches aren't really needed -- the only time the clutches step in is when something happens to make one wheel spin faster than the other, as in a turn. The clutches fight this behavior, wanting both wheels to go the same speed. If one wheel wants to spin faster than the other, it must first overpower the clutch. The stiffness of the springs combined with the friction of the clutch determine how much torque it takes to overpower it.

Getting back to the situation in which one drive wheel is on the ice and the other one has good traction...with this limited slip differential, even though the wheel on the ice is not able to transmit much torque to the ground, the other wheel will still get the torque it needs to move. The torque supplied to the wheel not on the ice is equal to the amount of torque it takes to overpower the clutches. The result is that you can move forward, although still not with the full power of your car.



The LSD shown above is the "real stuff" we used in our cars...

There are of course many other types of LSD in the market...
All these with the credit from Manticore!

Happy racing...
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Old 10-06-2001, 09:26 AM   #158
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Keep it up Mauler.

As for the black fluid, I dont think it is oil base but the smell of it sounds familia. I am sure this thing is not for lubrication purpose but to enhance the locking mechanism. I.E. kyosho use high quality carbide material for the diff gears and floating blocks to minimize the internal gear wear.
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Old 10-06-2001, 10:21 AM   #159
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mauler: woh...is that diff found in real cars or what...never seen anything like that before...y is there a little spring inside the diff?? the micro has similar design in the front diff...
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Old 10-06-2001, 01:41 PM   #160
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Mauler, nice explanation of the LSD. I want to try the experiment, but I don't want anything blow up in front of my face.

Manticore, are you sure those gears are made of carbide? If they are, the gear set is not expensive then.
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Old 10-06-2001, 11:45 PM   #161
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Hey Manticore, the "black lube" is indeed a lubricative substance. I've mailed Kyosho and this is an abstract of their reply..

"Thank you for your recent e-mail.

Yes it is a lubricating process, gears need properly lube so the parts move freely in tight places like gear boxes.
As for the material used I have no idea. Those parts are manufacture overseas. I am sure it is some type of plastic molds. If the part is not working properly or seems defective contact Hobby Services for replacement.

Sincerely,
David
Product Support Specialist
Great Planes Model Distributors
[email protected]
www.greatplanes.com
"

Happy racing...
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Old 10-06-2001, 11:51 PM   #162
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Quote:
Originally posted by Disaster999
mauler: woh...is that diff found in real cars or what...never seen anything like that before...y is there a little spring inside the diff?? the micro has similar design in the front diff...
Yes, this is the basic differential found in most touring cars today... Although some of them have moved on to the more sophisticated design like the "Torsen", or "Torque Sensing" differentials, which involves no gears or clutches at all...

The spring you see in the diff is for the engagement of the clutchs, as by now, I think you would have figured out...

Happy Racing...
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Old 10-07-2001, 12:07 AM   #163
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mauler
Hey Manticore, the "black lube" is indeed a lubricative substance. I've mailed Kyosho and this is an abstract of their reply..

"Thank you for your recent e-mail.

Yes it is a lubricating process, gears need properly lube so the parts move freely in tight places like gear boxes.
As for the material used I have no idea. Those parts are manufacture overseas. I am sure it is some type of plastic molds. If the part is not working properly or seems defective contact Hobby Services for replacement.

Sincerely,
David
Product Support Specialist
Great Planes Model Distributors
[email protected]
www.greatplanes.com
"

Happy racing...
Tks Mauler,

I still have hestitation about the reply from greatplanes as the answer was not from kyosho directly.
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Old 10-07-2001, 02:17 AM   #164
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Mauler, you are great! Thanks for contacting Great Planes and showing us the e-mail. According to what David says, he seems don't know much about LSD which hasn't been imported to US yet. i think he is referring the regular diff.

The black lube should be called mystery lube by now.

This is what I come up with. When the planetary gears are spinning very quick, both the floating block and planetary gears will heat up and expand. Because of the tight tolorance of the floating blocks and planetary gears, they lock up slightly and create some friciton for the LSD effect. The black lube is to control the temperture range of the floating blocks, so the planetary gears can't be locked up too much. It also helps the unlock effect when the planetary gears stop spinning.

What do you guys think?
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Old 10-07-2001, 02:28 AM   #165
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Quote:
Originally posted by White cat
Mauler, you are great! Thanks for contacting Great Planes and showing us the e-mail. According to what David says, he seems don't know much about LSD which hasn't been imported to US yet. i think he is referring the regular diff.

The black lube should be called mystery lube by now.

This is what I come up with. When the planetary gears are spinning very quick, both the floating block and planetary gears will heat up and expand. Because of the tight tolorance of the floating blocks and planetary gears, they lock up slightly and create some friciton for the LSD effect. The black lube is to control the temperture range of the floating blocks, so the planetary gears can't be locked up too much. It also helps the unlock effect when the planetary gears stop spinning.

What do you guys think?
How Mystery?

the ideal LSD effect should be progressive but not acts like on/off switch.
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