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Old 08-08-2005, 06:45 AM   #391
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tao3
Hi just to give a insight on the R12 it's ok if you put the slowest motor in but when you ran a top horsepower motor the car is a big dissappointment
1. Chews out the alloy wheel hex's
2. 2nd gear hub is now has so much slop in it it's distroying bearings
3. Front belt turns over (heard of this before happened twice to us on the same day)
4. Distroyed rear wheel bearings
5. Rear diff fence comes off and fray's rear belt
and that was only in 4 qualifer's yesterday and to top it off when my son was
racing for 3rd position in the A final the BRAND NEW (four 5 minute qualifers) front one way diff distroy's itself (I can see why they sell the car with a spool)
Had problems before but nothing this bad and the only reason I could think of is it handle the power of a less horsepower motor but when we switched to a Novarossi the car just fell apart and that is in 5 and 10 minute races what would happen in 20 and 30 minute races that we have for big events
The biggest joke is that I sold his Kyosho VoneRR evo for this and with the Australian National Titles coming up in 3 months I honestly think this was a bad choice
Don't get me wrong Schumacher makes great stuff we run a Cat3000 (2 state titles),Mission with a brushless and a MI2 (4th at state titles) but the R12 Team as a race car against Mugen's and Kyosho's I just don't think it's a wise choice
Well it might be time to think about a different car with the national's coming up something thats more robust than the R12

John and a disappointed 13 year old son
Yeah, theres alot of home fixes the R12 needs for it to race at a nice level. But needless to say, the non-team spec car will break with the slightest touch of a board. I cant really comment on the destroyed one-way, since its basicly not used here. I dont know how the car would handle a top-end engine since I have only seen it perform on a Rossi. Hopefully theres somebody that can list all the home fixes they needed to add to make this car race.
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Old 08-08-2005, 04:51 PM   #392
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tao3
Hi just to give a insight on the R12 it's ok if you put the slowest motor in but when you ran a top horsepower motor the car is a big dissappointment
1. Chews out the alloy wheel hex's
2. 2nd gear hub is now has so much slop in it it's distroying bearings
3. Front belt turns over (heard of this before happened twice to us on the same day)
4. Distroyed rear wheel bearings
5. Rear diff fence comes off and fray's rear belt
and that was only in 4 qualifer's yesterday and to top it off when my son was
racing for 3rd position in the A final the BRAND NEW (four 5 minute qualifers) front one way diff distroy's itself (I can see why they sell the car with a spool)
Had problems before but nothing this bad and the only reason I could think of is it handle the power of a less horsepower motor but when we switched to a Novarossi the car just fell apart and that is in 5 and 10 minute races what would happen in 20 and 30 minute races that we have for big events
The biggest joke is that I sold his Kyosho VoneRR evo for this and with the Australian National Titles coming up in 3 months I honestly think this was a bad choice
Don't get me wrong Schumacher makes great stuff we run a Cat3000 (2 state titles),Mission with a brushless and a MI2 (4th at state titles) but the R12 Team as a race car against Mugen's and Kyosho's I just don't think it's a wise choice
Well it might be time to think about a different car with the national's coming up something thats more robust than the R12

John and a disappointed 13 year old son
Thats weird I had my team spec car for almost one year and the only problem i had was a striped second gear because i forgot to tighten the motor mounts but other than that I havent had any problems or any with the belts even when I had the old R12.And I have a pretty good motor with in it now a Maxys modified motor (Novarossi NS3) and I doesnt fall apart after 5 minutes.
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Old 08-08-2005, 04:56 PM   #393
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I have to agree that the car is a soft on the hits. I believe that the car is not good for small tight tracks where you will hit something and will be hit by someone. However... and you knew there would be a however... lol...

This car is dynamite on large tracks. I run a Sirio that has been modififed and probably one of the fastest engines I can put on this car. And this car is fast and handles beautifully. I do have the pro spec car with the ally parts and added the alloy dif mounts in front and back and titanium where possible. Of course the P Dub bumper. I just ran this car for two days straight and broke nothing. I have heard of people having belt problems and I haven't as yet been in that situation.

The car is fast, will break on softer contacts than others, but is so good for changes to adjust to the track. It is a drivers car and a car for someone that likes to make small changes and see results either good or bad.

It always looks good also... just in case your not the fastest driver... then make sure you have a car that looks good!!! lol
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Old 08-08-2005, 04:59 PM   #394
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Originally Posted by sfelish
I have to agree that the car is a soft on the hits. I believe that the car is not good for small tight tracks where you will hit something and will be hit by someone. However... and you knew there would be a however... lol...

This car is dynamite on large tracks. I run a Sirio that has been modififed and probably one of the fastest engines I can put on this car. And this car is fast and handles beautifully. I do have the pro spec car with the ally parts and added the alloy dif mounts in front and back and titanium where possible. Of course the P Dub bumper. I just ran this car for two days straight and broke nothing. I have heard of people having belt problems and I haven't as yet been in that situation.

The car is fast, will break on softer contacts than others, but is so good for changes to adjust to the track. It is a drivers car and a car for someone that likes to make small changes and see results either good or bad.

It always looks good also... just in case your not the fastest driver... then make sure you have a car that looks good!!! lol

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Old 08-08-2005, 09:07 PM   #395
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tao3
Hi just to give a insight on the R12 it's ok if you put the slowest motor in but when you ran a top horsepower motor the car is a big dissappointment
1. Chews out the alloy wheel hex's
2. 2nd gear hub is now has so much slop in it it's distroying bearings
3. Front belt turns over (heard of this before happened twice to us on the same day)
4. Distroyed rear wheel bearings
5. Rear diff fence comes off and fray's rear belt
and that was only in 4 qualifer's yesterday and to top it off when my son was
racing for 3rd position in the A final the BRAND NEW (four 5 minute qualifers) front one way diff distroy's itself (I can see why they sell the car with a spool)
Had problems before but nothing this bad and the only reason I could think of is it handle the power of a less horsepower motor but when we switched to a Novarossi the car just fell apart and that is in 5 and 10 minute races what would happen in 20 and 30 minute races that we have for big events
The biggest joke is that I sold his Kyosho VoneRR evo for this and with the Australian National Titles coming up in 3 months I honestly think this was a bad choice
Don't get me wrong Schumacher makes great stuff we run a Cat3000 (2 state titles),Mission with a brushless and a MI2 (4th at state titles) but the R12 Team as a race car against Mugen's and Kyosho's I just don't think it's a wise choice
Well it might be time to think about a different car with the national's coming up something thats more robust than the R12

John and a disappointed 13 year old son
Heres is what my friend Z24 does with his R12 that had those problems.

1) He used epoxy to re-inforce the differential fences so they wouldn't come loose during the races. The epoxy was applied where the fences meet the differential pulley [where the balls are placed].

2) He used aluminum foil in the bottom part of both sides of the differentials so that there wouldnt be any play with both differentials. In other words the aluminum foil was placed below where the ball bearing of the differentials are placed.

3) If you break the rear belt constantly, try adding silicone to the aluminum pulleys so they act like they were plastic. My friend uses alot of braking and if he doesnt use silicone, the belt would break easily.

4) About chewing the alloy wheel hexes I don't know what to say as I havent seen any problems here with that. You can try to tighten more the wheel nut or try to use a different material.


With those fixes you will PROBABLY fix:

1) There wont be any play with the differentials in the front nor back differentials which will help you with the flippling and breaking of the long belt.

2) The differential fences won't come loose.

3) The rear differential ball bearings will probably survive since there is no play with the differential.

4) Won't break the rear belt if you had any problems with it. You probably havent had any since you probably dont use any heavy breaking.

5) Adding the aluminum foil in the differential will prevent the belt from flipping since there wont be any play. I have seen the belt flip at the minimum air time or bump with the car.
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Old 08-08-2005, 09:38 PM   #396
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Riketsu
Heres is what my friend Z24 does with his R12 that had those problems.

1) He used epoxy to re-inforce the differential fences so they wouldn't come loose during the races. The epoxy was applied where the fences meet the differential pulley [where the balls are placed].

2) He used aluminum foil in the bottom part of both sides of the differentials so that there wouldnt be any play with both differentials. In other words the aluminum foil was placed below where the ball bearing of the differentials are placed.

3) If you break the rear belt constantly, try adding silicone to the aluminum pulleys so they act like they were plastic. My friend uses alot of braking and if he doesnt use silicone, the belt would break easily.

4) About chewing the alloy wheel hexes I don't know what to say as I havent seen any problems here with that. You can try to tighten more the wheel nut or try to use a different material.


With those fixes you will PROBABLY fix:

1) There wont be any play with the differentials in the front nor back differentials which will help you with the flippling and breaking of the long belt.

2) The differential fences won't come loose.

3) The rear differential ball bearings will probably survive since there is no play with the differential.

4) Won't break the rear belt if you had any problems with it. You probably havent had any since you probably dont use any heavy breaking.

5) Adding the aluminum foil in the differential will prevent the belt from flipping since there wont be any play. I have seen the belt flip at the minimum air time or bump with the car.

Tao3:

I'll try to post some pics tomorrow of the fixes.

I had those same problems that you had, except from the bearings.
Just try to make those mods and test the car at your local rctrack and see if you have some good results.

Schumacher has to do something about this issues. They haven't respond anything to resolve all this problems.

Serpent always make some changes and upgrades to their cars for better reability, durability and performance. Schumacher concentrates more on the MI2 than the R12 and that is just not right.

I've done this home fixes on my own, cuz no one has been able to respond to me or anyone who has these factory problems.

And more thing... those one who had fade braking issue with the R12. I use the Fusion 21 Brake disc, and you can make some late brakings and no more fades. part#U1636T
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Old 08-09-2005, 02:40 AM   #397
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Thanks guys
1. The bearings I can replace (always do with other brand bearings I find that Schumacher kit bearings don't last long in any of there kits especially the small flange bearings)
2. 2nd gear hub (the one with the pin on it) poor design with the single pin it is always going to load the bearings unevenly. Order 2 spares but that is not going to fix the problem.
3. rear diff fence's posibly going to try the delrin rear diff and fences of a Mission have the Delrin diff'f in the MI2 the fence's are reasonably tight on them
4. Alloy wheel hex's I think the groove in the hex is not deep enough for serious power I set the play in the hex's to be next to nothing (meaning no play but not tight if you understand) Never had this problem with the Mission or MI2
5. Front one way This is the biggest problem that really p#?/ off. It was brand new I even spent time shimming it correctly but the one way bearings just destroyed them self. The one way made alot of differance to the car over here as the track is what I call big and fast and a one way is a must have but to not last a days racing is really not up tp scratch And at a cost of Aus$79.50 plus (US$60.60) for 25 minutes of racing is pretty poor (how many do you have to buy before you get a good one) like I said is that why they have only ever supplied a normal or spool with there kits. With the MI2 they had a orginal one way then they produced a heavy duty one way what happened to the drivers of the R12 was it to hard to make a heavy duty one way for the R12?

Don't get me wrong this is (could be) a great car it has good top speed and is fast with the one way through the corners but with the National's coming up the realiablity of the car is questionably. I don't think anybody else will be running a R12 at the National's and with the problems we are having this car might not make the National's

Also contacted Schumacher about these problems so I will see if there is any interest in the car from there side

Thanks
John
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Old 08-09-2005, 02:47 AM   #398
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Heres the pics Z24 was talking about.
Attached Thumbnails
Schumacher R12 Fusion-4b13510a2.jpg   Schumacher R12 Fusion-picture.jpg  
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Old 08-10-2005, 03:16 AM   #399
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Well just been contacted by Schumacher UK having the engineering manager and our race team manager looking at the problems so hopefully something cames of this as it would be a shame not to run the National's with the R12

Have been offered a Mugen MTX3 Prospec to run in the National's if all else fails but that's the last thing I wanted to do as the young boy desperately want's to run the R12

John
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Old 08-10-2005, 07:42 AM   #400
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tao3
Well just been contacted by Schumacher UK having the engineering manager and our race team manager looking at the problems so hopefully something cames of this as it would be a shame not to run the National's with the R12

Have been offered a Mugen MTX3 Prospec to run in the National's if all else fails but that's the last thing I wanted to do as the young boy desperately want's to run the R12

John
Hope Schumacher do something about it. Keep us inform!!!
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Old 08-12-2005, 06:00 AM   #401
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Well Schumacher got back to us but I would rather not say what they said at the moment (I still can't believe it) I'll keep you intouch when it is all sorted.

I can see why Z24 uses foil for the bearings spent last night trying differnt thing's but it seam's that 15mm bearings are just to sloppy in the holder's- suggestion Schumacher should make on peice diff holders
With the slop the diff runs on a slight angle causing the belt to rub excessively on the fence causing the fence to come off thus chewing out the rear belt
Just spent a couple hour's on the car tonight cheching out the second gear hub problem when I noticed about 1mm end movment in the layshaft and about 2mm end movment in the 1st gear holder (must of been a Friday car)

The main reason is p#*/ of is
Mugen Seiki MTX-3 kit w/wheels/tires A$669.00 (US$517)
Schumacher Team Spec R12 Touring Car A$795.95 (US$615)
Guess what alot of the top drivers race
For the price I would have expected abit better quality than this
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Old 08-12-2005, 06:42 AM   #402
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tao3
Well Schumacher got back to us but I would rather not say what they said at the moment (I still can't believe it) I'll keep you intouch when it is all sorted.

I can see why Z24 uses foil for the bearings spent last night trying differnt thing's but it seam's that 15mm bearings are just to sloppy in the holder's- suggestion Schumacher should make on peice diff holders
With the slop the diff runs on a slight angle causing the belt to rub excessively on the fence causing the fence to come off thus chewing out the rear belt
Just spent a couple hour's on the car tonight cheching out the second gear hub problem when I noticed about 1mm end movment in the layshaft and about 2mm end movment in the 1st gear holder (must of been a Friday car)

The main reason is p#*/ of is
Mugen Seiki MTX-3 kit w/wheels/tires A$669.00 (US$517)
Schumacher Team Spec R12 Touring Car A$795.95 (US$615)
Guess what alot of the top drivers race
For the price I would have expected abit better quality than this

I dont know where you got your prices from but here they are from Schumacher website
R12 - Team Spec Nitro Touring 200mm K042 $379.99


http://www.racing-cars.com/usa/produ...?recnumber=259
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Old 08-12-2005, 07:10 AM   #403
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They are the prices from a hobby shop in Australia (www.frontlinehobbies.com.au which I have never delt with so there is no bias towards them)
They are in Australian dollars then converted to US dollars using Xe.com to show you how much we pay for them
Sometimes I wished we were in the states some of your prices are to good to be true compared to what we pay over here
Just to give you an idea
HPI pro4 2005 edition A$679.95 (converted to US $524.22)
Schumacher MI2 carbon A$599.95 (converted to US $462.75)
I don't think you would pay $462.75 for a MI2 in the states but that is what it would cost us over here
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Old 08-12-2005, 07:27 AM   #404
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tao3
Well Schumacher got back to us but I would rather not say what they said at the moment (I still can't believe it) I'll keep you intouch when it is all sorted.

I can see why Z24 uses foil for the bearings spent last night trying differnt thing's but it seam's that 15mm bearings are just to sloppy in the holder's- suggestion Schumacher should make on peice diff holders
With the slop the diff runs on a slight angle causing the belt to rub excessively on the fence causing the fence to come off thus chewing out the rear belt
Just spent a couple hour's on the car tonight cheching out the second gear hub problem when I noticed about 1mm end movment in the layshaft and about 2mm end movment in the 1st gear holder (must of been a Friday car)

The main reason is p#*/ of is
Mugen Seiki MTX-3 kit w/wheels/tires A$669.00 (US$517)
Schumacher Team Spec R12 Touring Car A$795.95 (US$615)
Guess what alot of the top drivers race
For the price I would have expected abit better quality than this
Holy... The R12 being more expensive than the Mugen? Somethings gotta be wrong... From all the problems the R12/Team Spec comes from factory it should be at the same price as the Moongoose G4.
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Old 08-12-2005, 07:30 AM   #405
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How about this
If I was to order a R12 Team kit from oversea's this is how much we would have to pay plus shipping
Schumacher UK
R12 team UK$299.99 in Australian dollars thats $703.62Aus
Schumacher US
R12 team US$379.99 in Australia dollars thats $491.71Aus

So you would say to buy from US but here is a quote from a person in another forum trying to buy Alloy diff mounts for a Mission
"I know about metro they are right around the corner from where I work. They charge $55.00 for one set. racing-cars.com in America they are like $18.00 but won't ship to Australia?"
Metro's is another hobby shop in Australia
So our Schumacher parts come from UK
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Last edited by tao3; 08-12-2005 at 07:45 AM.
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