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Old 10-20-2001, 04:41 AM   #226
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Quote:
Originally posted by Novarossi
W Fok, where did u send it to? I have no email

Moon, never really liked the Paris Ring pipes for some reason, and as mentioned, found RB to be alittle to soft (maybe it was just my driving )

I really would like to try the Yokomo pipes, but we should expect them here in Australian in about 3 years
3 years ?
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Old 10-20-2001, 05:18 AM   #227
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Quote:
Originally posted by Novarossi
W Fok, where did u send it to? I have no email

Moon, never really liked the Paris Ring pipes for some reason, and as mentioned, found RB to be alittle to soft (maybe it was just my driving )

I really would like to try the Yokomo pipes, but we should expect them here in Australian in about 3 years
[email protected]
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Old 10-20-2001, 05:40 AM   #228
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sydewynder


[email protected]
yeh.

Are u sending it by post or something W Fok????
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Old 10-20-2001, 05:52 AM   #229
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BTW, I didn't see the 'arguement' you guys were having up there.

We race on a fairly big track and I can tell you that good drivers know when to make a pass and know the slower drivers are around them (and could cause trouble).

We have Sponsered drivers, the 5 Time national champion, and other state championship winner drivers who race on our normal club meets, and these guys rarely get hit.

Overall :

1. It simply comes to your driving ability to overtake at the right time and do it right

2. You ability to be aware of the 'slower' drivers that could cause trouble around you (eg rear end you)

3. The attitude the other club members have (eg - most of our club racers show alot of respect and allow faster cars to overtake easily 99.99999% of the time)

4. Alittle luck.
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Old 10-20-2001, 09:21 AM   #230
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Quote:
Originally posted by Novarossi
BTW, I didn't see the 'arguement' you guys were having up there.

We race on a fairly big track and I can tell you that good drivers know when to make a pass and know the slower drivers are around them (and could cause trouble).

We have Sponsered drivers, the 5 Time national champion, and other state championship winner drivers who race on our normal club meets, and these guys rarely get hit.

Overall :

1. It simply comes to your driving ability to overtake at the right time and do it right

2. You ability to be aware of the 'slower' drivers that could cause trouble around you (eg rear end you)

3. The attitude the other club members have (eg - most of our club racers show alot of respect and allow faster cars to overtake easily 99.99999% of the time)

4. Alittle luck.
Node Node !

I didnt see there is any reason the serious RC tourer maker should put more attention on parts durability over chassis performance. Somehow there is a point where you need to determine if a tourer is best for you between the two points of performance and durability based on your own driving skill.
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Old 10-20-2001, 12:14 PM   #231
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my main point is the crappy guys that seem to want to overtake everybody even though they are obviously never going to win. For example you exit the straight going into a turn wide, and even though you see them coming that crappy person comes flying out of the straight at full throttle expecting to use you as cushioning. Now do you understand where I'm frustrated?
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Old 10-20-2001, 12:55 PM   #232
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Manitcore - I totally disagree.

I have been in this hobby for years. I also have a working knowledge or the characteristics of various types of plastic, and basic design techniques using CAD/CAM systems.

I can tell you, absolutely and with NO equivication, that is would be EASY and SIMPLE to design and build an RC car that would rarely, if ever break. Even when kissing the wall. Even (within limits) hitting it head-on. These cars would be as fast or FASTER and easier to handle than current cars on the market. These cars would, if anything, be cheaper to manufacture.

There is only ONE logical reason why we don't see such cars on the market: Greed. Pure and simple. Kit-makers WANT your car to break. It is the only reason why they are still using cheap, cheesy, flimsy plastics that were invented decades ago. It is the only reason why they make those parts with pencil-thin supports that will snap with the smallest pressure.

The profit margins on the kits are not great. The profit margins on replacement parts are OUTRAGEOUS. -THIS- is where they make their bucks. HOW else to you explain paying $10 for a suspension arm? They are racking it in, my friend. All based on intentional incompetence.

Same thing happened decades ago in the auto industry. Detroit used "planned obsolescence" to assure a quick turnover of their inventories. They made their cars ineffecient to appease their buddies in the oil business. And they got their butts reamed when foreign manufacturers decided to do it right.

As far as "good" drivers being able to avoid accidents, let me ask you this: Does anyone at your track break their cars? Were they "good" drivers? If the answer is yes, you don't have an arguement here. You just have an over-inflated opinion on what a good driver can and cannot do.

Yes, driving these cars DOES take skill. But it ain't rocket science, so I hate to burst your bubble. I have seen HUGE pileups at national races, in the A mains where nothing but team drivers are racing. I have seen more than a few leave the track with broken cars. And these are guys that have access to cars and parts that nobody else can get.

So your car has broken. You have left the track with a wheel dangling from your chassis. It probably was NOT your fault. And it WAS unavoidable.

Relax though. The manufacturers want your car to break. They COUNT on it... And they are PRAYING that someone doesn't come along and decide to do it right.
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Old 10-20-2001, 02:54 PM   #233
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Quote:
Originally posted by Leet TC3
Manitcore - I totally disagree.

I have been in this hobby for years. I also have a working knowledge or the characteristics of various types of plastic, and basic design techniques using CAD/CAM systems.

I can tell you, absolutely and with NO equivication, that is would be EASY and SIMPLE to design and build an RC car that would rarely, if ever break....
The manufacturers want your car to break. They COUNT on it... And they are PRAYING that someone doesn't come along and decide to do it right.
Hey, perhaps there's a point I don't really see to... As you are someone who uses the CAD/CAM system, I would say that you are more or less technically inclined... But let me point out that CAD/CAM isn't everything in a product design... Such cars are DESIGNED TO DRIVE and not behave like bumper cars kissing walls and ramming other car's asses... I believe the polymers the manufacturers use are optimised for such usage, light and yet durable for occasional bumps...

As for the point that the manufacturers would want your car to break, that's a rather narrow perception... Would the manufacturers want to spend so much money into their R&D and come up with an inferior good? I don't think so... In fact, the people who wishes your car parts to be replaced are your very dear LHS owners... Take a close look at their faces the next time you visit them with a broken part... I'm sure they'll be grinning from ear to ear...

Bottomline... just be careful on the track...
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Old 10-20-2001, 03:04 PM   #234
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Leet TC3

do you really need a refreshment course in economics?
Why do you think the manufacturers are in this business?
To make YOU happy?
Maybe somewhere waaayyy down their priority list.
There first and major goal is to make MONEY.

What do you think are the real material and production cost for a MTX2?
I would be surprised if it's much more than 50 bucks if at all.

Why don't they sell you the car for $50? Because there is a whole line of people in the plants, distributrs and dealers that need to make money.

That's not called GREED, that called good business practice.

Why do you think Detroit is building such crappy cars that usually start falling apart right after the warranty runs out?

They wanna make money.
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Old 10-20-2001, 03:10 PM   #235
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Quote:
Originally posted by stefan
Leet TC3

do you really need a refreshment course in economics?
Why do you think the manufacturers are in this business?
To make YOU happy?
Maybe somewhere waaayyy down their priority list.
There first and major goal is to make MONEY.

What do you think are the real material and production cost for a MTX2?
I would be surprised if it's much more than 50 bucks if at all.

Why don't they sell you the car for $50? Because there is a whole line of people in the plants, distributrs and dealers that need to make money.

That's not called GREED, that called good business practice.

Why do you think Detroit is building such crappy cars that usually start falling apart right after the warranty runs out?

They wanna make money.
Yup...one vote for that...
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Old 10-20-2001, 03:40 PM   #236
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Mauler - Well, what can I say. You are wrong.

They could design and build cars that could INDEED withstand most of the "bumps" our cars go thru. There are plastics available that outperform even Delrin for qualities that could make a great RC car. They could easily design cars that had flex absorption in key stress points, giving the car stiffness during normal operation and yet a good amount of "give" to absord most or all of the absurdly small "bumps" that snap the crappy parts.

$50 of parts in the MTX kit? No way. Not even close. It is much more than that, even taking my cynical approach. Plus, they have to pass on the design costs, which are quite high. I suspect most kits are priced to give the manufacturer a decent shot at breaking even if the car has even moderate sales. The real bucks come from the replacement parts and hop-ups that SHOULD HAVE BEEN INCLUDED in the first place.

Stefan - Well, are you disagreeing with me? Because you basically made my point(s).

You call it "Good business practice?" and not GREED? HA! That's a laugh! Go ask the stockholders of the big 3 automakers. Go ask the millions of autoworkers who have lost their jobs over the past 20 years. Go ask them about "Good business practice".

Bottom line, they HAVE to make ME HAPPY. Yes they do. Otherwise I don't buy their product, and they make ZIPPO money. It's called capitalism.

Tell me, do you love wasting dollars on products that pi$$ you off? I think you are being incredibly naive if you think the bottom line ISN'T customer satisfaction. Believe me, it is NOT "way down the list". For proof, go ask those autoworkers.

So, who is it that needs that refresher course?
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Old 10-21-2001, 12:50 AM   #237
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10 intresting things I found so far with the building of the Pro :


1. Alloy hubs come with a spacer that goes between the hub and bearing. Off the shelf alloy hubs don't come with no spacers and no mention of using one.

2. Any tyres over 30mm on rear, the instructions tell u to chop off some plastic on the arms

3. Comes with both wide bumper and stock bumper included.

4. Front body post mount, plastic is about 300% thicker then the original MTX (less body mount flexing)

5. Alloy engine mounts has 4 mounting positions (from top)

6. Pinions are 16T 1st, 20T 2nd (only black in colour)

7. The parts are bagged alot better.

8. Upper deck has a few mods to the original upper deck

9. Comes with 2 sets of instructions, one being the original instruction booklet, and another instruction manual for the hop up parts assembly only.

10. Nice bag (padded)


Have changed to 18/22 Pinions, and installed the Teflon Pads only. Everything else is box stock, and will follow the setup guide included (expect using 50,000wt instead of inlcuded 30,000wt rear diff oil)

My original MTX did weigh 1771g at a recent State Title. Intresting to weigh the Pro (Still using the RS-12, and 3PJS with 9404 servos)

Will keep u guys posted

Last edited by Michael_T; 10-21-2001 at 12:52 AM.
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Old 10-21-2001, 01:38 AM   #238
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Novarossi

When you crank down on the wheel nut, does the wheel bearing bind?
Are you suppose to chop off bits of the arm or is it the uprights for 30+mm rear tires? If its the lower arms where do they tell you to cut? Danks Mang.
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Old 10-21-2001, 02:29 AM   #239
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sydewynder
Novarossi

When you crank down on the wheel nut, does the wheel bearing bind?
Are you suppose to chop off bits of the arm or is it the uprights for 30+mm rear tires? If its the lower arms where do they tell you to cut? Danks Mang.
The wheel bearing just slightly binds, the spacer/washer makes a huge difference.

The instructions show a shaded area on the top of each rear hub to cut off for 30+mm wheels. Looks like a fairly big chop, not sure if it would weaken the arm in any way.

Looking at buying the Pro W Fok?
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Old 10-21-2001, 02:30 AM   #240
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Whoops, forget to see that part of the question - chop off the upright hubs on the rear.
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