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Old 05-30-2007, 01:11 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by va_connoisseur
You guys made some good points about what is driving the RC market right now. I started with a T-Maxx and ran it like a fiend for a few years, even did a few club races. Then I saw an on-road race and was hooked.

Here is the problem as I see it, especially here in America. Finding a place to run an on-road car is difficult. There needs to be/should be at least one permanent on-road track in every major metro area in this country. Heck, look at all the skate/bike parks. How did they get built? The local community (skate shops, skaters, civic leaders, etc) got together and had them built.
That situation in the USA always surprises me. I'm from Portugal (a country about the size of one of your small states and i'm being an optimist here) and we have atleast 7 onroad tracks capable of hosting 1/8th races at the national level. And the economy here is a lot worse than the USA.

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Originally Posted by va_connoisseur
That is where the LHS can be a big help. Unfortunately, most of them go for the quick buck, and now with the internet driving prices to a razor thin margin, they have to do what they feel is best to survive. And that means Truggy, Buggys and MTs. But it's a short term fix that will have grave long term effects for the sport.

Now as for RTR on-road cars (NTC3, CEN, 4Tec) the issue is the manufactures hype one thing...SPEED! So you get these crazy claims of near triple digit speed and people eat it up. So when the see a MTX-4R or 720 '07 sitting on a shelf without an engine or neon graphics, they go for the speed.

Want to revive the sports, here are my suggestions:

1. Have mags cover more of the on-road Regional and National races
2. Manufactures (CEN, HPI, AE, Traxxas) should make RTRs that are easily configurable to race-worthiness. Look at Team Magic's G4S RTR for an example.
3. More racing venue's locally. Even if the hobby shops have to ban together, in the end it will benefit them all if there is a track where at least monthly races are held (whether perm or a prepped parking lot)

and most importantly
4. WE RACERS/HOBBYIST NEED TO SUPPORT THE LHS BY BUYING FROM THEM! Yeah, I'm a little passionate about this one. I get sick to death of seeing threads "Where can I find cheapest price on XXX"? And the answers are always, try www.qwerty.com or whatever. Look, if you are about to spend $400 for a kit, saving $15 dollars should not be that big of a deal, when you consider all the help you can get from the people at the LHS if you buy the kit/RTR from them. And them people wonder why the LHS person looks at them cross-eyed when the come in wanting advice on how to set up the car they got on the 'net.

Sure, I could have gotten my Mugen for a little less on-line (hell, a lot less if you consider I had to drive 30 miles one-way in DC traffic to the LHS where I bought it) but as someone who has ran a business I know how difficult it is to compete. The internet companies have little or no overhead; no building to rent, few employees, no electric or water bills, etc. So the can operate on a razors margin and make it up in volume. Your LHS can't.

So the next time you want to get that 4mm chassis and it's online for $45 and the LHS has it for $55, suck it up and help the guy out. Hell, get to know them, build a report and they may get it to you for $50. But either way, you are helping the sport buy keeping the grass roots strong.
I tried to do that in the beginning, but in the end i was always waiting too long for parts. The problem around here is the dealer. When i can get parts faster from the-border.com than from the dealer for my country something is wrong. If i order sunday afternoon i almost always get my parts by thursday in time for another weekend of pratice/race. If i ordered them from the LHS, the dealer would take atleast 2x that to get the parts to the LHS.

So you see, for me the problem is not price. I normally pay extra from the internet because i have to pay for the transport. But i'll happily pay that bit extra to have my parts in time.

On another note, its not true that all online shops dont have to rent space or pay employees. Almost all online shops that i use tell me if the part is on stock or not. To have stock they pretty much have to have some kind of storage space. They also have to pay someone to ship the orders, keep the site in sync with the inventory. They have expenses, just other kind of expenses.
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Old 05-30-2007, 02:00 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm_PT
That situation in the USA always surprises me. I'm from Portugal (a country about the size of one of your small states and i'm being an optimist here) and we have atleast 7 onroad tracks capable of hosting 1/8th races at the national level. And the economy here is a lot worse than the USA.
Yeah, the issue here in the US is the cost of real estate. I know here in the mid-Atlantic region, cost of real estate is really expensive. So to get a permanent track built would take a collaborative effort. It's like golf driving/practice ranges. As popular as golf is here in DC, there are relatively few practice ranges because the cost of a few acres of land in Virginia, DC or Maryland is high. On a side note, man it has to be cool to have that many quality permanent tracks in close proximity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm_PT
I tried to do that in the beginning, but in the end i was always waiting too long for parts. The problem around here is the dealer. When i can get parts faster from the-border.com than from the dealer for my country something is wrong. If i order sunday afternoon i almost always get my parts by thursday in time for another weekend of pratice/race. If i ordered them from the LHS, the dealer would take atleast 2x that to get the parts to the LHS.

So you see, for me the problem is not price. I normally pay extra from the internet because i have to pay for the transport. But i'll happily pay that bit extra to have my parts in time.

On another note, its not true that all online shops dont have to rent space or pay employees. Almost all online shops that i use tell me if the part is on stock or not. To have stock they pretty much have to have some kind of storage space. They also have to pay someone to ship the orders, keep the site in sync with the inventory. They have expenses, just other kind of expenses.
It would be interesting to know why it takes them so long to get your orders to you. If you ask and let them know you would prefer to order from them if they can get it to you quicker, maybe they will speed things up.

Only issue I would take with that is in the US, a fairly large online store can be run out of a large rental storage facility (most here are heated/ac, guarded or locked) and you can have 2-3 people handle and ship out the orders on a daily basis. There are several business models built around that flexible business plan. My point is the online businesses in general are able to sale at a greater discount then brick and mortar shop because of significantly less overhead.
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Old 05-30-2007, 03:22 PM   #33
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I had the opportunity to talk to a full service hobby store owner and he told me point blank. If you want to open a hobby store to make money you are a fool. You have to open a hobby store for the love of the hobby and hopefully make money at it. If you are fortunate to have a full service hobby store close to then yes I believe you ought to support that store as much as possible as long as the prices are competitive (ie I have a privately owned hobby store that sells O'Donnel fuel for $32.99/gallon where Hobbytown (chainstore) sells it for $21.99 a gallon that to me is excessive. And most of the workers in my local hobby store are all volunteers. Only the owner and his wife see revenue. Us racers just go there to bench race,hangout and help out kids who ran their cars and trucks into trees
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Old 05-30-2007, 04:14 PM   #34
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One of my best friends owns a hobby shop and has a dirt track in the back of the shop. He makes his money on the bashers not the racers. Go into the Hobbytown and ask them what they sell more of. RC or General hobby stuff. AE is out to make as much money as they can and these companies see were the money is. RTR's and offroad bashing. Heck the new AE RC8 is going to be an ARR(almost ready to run) car just like the new Losi 8ightT is. Offroad gets the coverage in the mags because they get 200+ entries at races. On-road may get 50 entries. I will admit that I switched from nitro touring car to racing 1/8th scale buggies. That 3rd demension just makes things crazy fun. I was thinking about coming back to touring car but I was looking at the prices and almost chocked. $280.00 for a .12 and $499.00 for the new Nova 359. My .21's did not cost that much. Just my $.02.
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Old 05-30-2007, 06:39 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by va_connoisseur
You guys made some good points about what is driving the RC market right now. I started with a T-Maxx and ran it like a fiend for a few years, even did a few club races. Then I saw an on-road race and was hooked.

Here is the problem as I see it, especially here in America. Finding a place to run an on-road car is difficult. There needs to be/should be at least one permanent on-road track in every major metro area in this country. Heck, look at all the skate/bike parks. How did they get built? The local community (skate shops, skaters, civic leaders, etc) got together and had them built.

That is where the LHS can be a big help. Unfortunately, most of them go for the quick buck, and now with the internet driving prices to a razor thin margin, they have to do what they feel is best to survive. And that means Truggy, Buggys and MTs. But it's a short term fix that will have grave long term effects for the sport.

Now as for RTR on-road cars (NTC3, CEN, 4Tec) the issue is the manufactures hype one thing...SPEED! So you get these crazy claims of near triple digit speed and people eat it up. So when the see a MTX-4R or 720 '07 sitting on a shelf without an engine or neon graphics, they go for the speed.

Want to revive the sports, here are my suggestions:

1. Have mags cover more of the on-road Regional and National races
2. Manufactures (CEN, HPI, AE, Traxxas) should make RTRs that are easily configurable to race-worthiness. Look at Team Magic's G4S RTR for an example.
3. More racing venue's locally. Even if the hobby shops have to ban together, in the end it will benefit them all if there is a track where at least monthly races are held (whether perm or a prepped parking lot)

and most importantly
4. WE RACERS/HOBBYIST NEED TO SUPPORT THE LHS BY BUYING FROM THEM! Yeah, I'm a little passionate about this one. I get sick to death of seeing threads "Where can I find cheapest price on XXX"? And the answers are always, try www.qwerty.com or whatever. Look, if you are about to spend $400 for a kit, saving $15 dollars should not be that big of a deal, when you consider all the help you can get from the people at the LHS if you buy the kit/RTR from them. And them people wonder why the LHS person looks at them cross-eyed when the come in wanting advice on how to set up the car they got on the 'net.

Sure, I could have gotten my Mugen for a little less on-line (hell, a lot less if you consider I had to drive 30 miles one-way in DC traffic to the LHS where I bought it) but as someone who has ran a business I know how difficult it is to compete. The internet companies have little or no overhead; no building to rent, few employees, no electric or water bills, etc. So the can operate on a razors margin and make it up in volume. Your LHS can't.

So the next time you want to get that 4mm chassis and it's online for $45 and the LHS has it for $55, suck it up and help the guy out. Hell, get to know them, build a report and they may get it to you for $50. But either way, you are helping the sport buy keeping the grass roots strong.

My apologies, did not mean to go on a rant.
very well said and agree with you 101%... no apologies needed - but that's me...
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Old 05-30-2007, 08:29 PM   #36
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support LHS?? sorry but ive been ripped off many times, and seen so many people been ripped off and mistreated by them that is not even funny, have 3 LHS around and not even one of them care, when you walk in to the stores they only see this $$$$$, you should buy where your pockets can afford, and sadly online you can find better deals, sometimes you can save up to 30% compared to LHS, do you know how much is 30% out of a $400? $120, i work hard for my money to give it away to them so they can operate and have a living out of me, i been thinking how much money i have spended in this hobby over the last 6 years and all the things that i could have done with that money, and my conclusion is that for the las 6 years ive been wasting my money, and thats why right now im getting out, so to all of you good luck, anybody interested in a t-maxx and a almost new v-one-rrr with evo parts PM me.
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Old 05-30-2007, 08:33 PM   #37
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by the way, "support your LHS" ?????? screw them, tell your LHS to support you!

Last edited by oderem; 06-01-2007 at 10:16 PM.
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Old 05-30-2007, 08:36 PM   #38
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i came to this thread looking for info on a NTC5, not some ongoing debate
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Old 05-30-2007, 08:53 PM   #39
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hey, this is a forum, you can pretty much say anything you want, sometimes it goes out of context, is impossible to avoid, but now that you mention it we should make another tread, "how your LHS ripped you off" or "your LHS deserve your support? tell us why not"
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Old 05-30-2007, 09:11 PM   #40
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You guys skipped the NTC4......
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Old 05-30-2007, 09:41 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oderem
support LHS?? sorry but ive been ripped off many times, and seen so many people been ripped off and mistreated by them that is not even funny, have 3 LHS around and not even one of them care, when you walk in to the stores they only see this $$$$$, you should buy where your pockets can afford, and sadly online you can find better deals, sometimes you can save up to 30% compared to LHS, do you know how much is 30% out of a $400? $120, i work hard for my money to give it away to them so they can operate and have a living out of me, i been thinking how much money i have spended in this hobby over the last 6 years and all the things that i could have done with that money, and my conclusion is that for the las 6 years ive been wasting my money, and thats why right now im getting out, so to all of you good luck, anybody interested in a t-maxx and a almost new v-one-rrr with evo parts PM me.
Interesting. You been ripped off for 6 years, wasting your money. Well, it's unfortunate when anyone waste their money for that long. What was that saying mom use to say, "Fool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice...well you know the rest".

And where, pray tell is there a place online selling $400 anything for $280. Be it the Mugen MTX-4R, Goodyear tires or a Brooks Brothers Blazer, cause that's one heck of a deal.

All kidding aside, you sound real angry. Hobbies should be fun. If you're not enjoying this one, then it makes sense to leave.
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Old 05-31-2007, 08:09 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nitrohead5300
Seems like a witches brew it is a combination of small problems that combine to make a hugh problem. The person who usually buys the rtr lacks setup skills, tuning skills because his vehicle was already put togather for him. Then the guy has problems with it, goes to his local hobbyshop where he may encounter an attitude problem from the shop owner because he purchased the vehicle from the internet. Guys at the track are too busy racing and repairing their vehicles for the next heat to really give him the help he needs so he is just out there!! Get frustated and usually ends up putting his vehicle back in the closet. If we want this hobby to survive we need to support our local hobbyshop as much as possible and practical and help out the newbee as much as we can.
Very very well said !! As a hobby store owner, it's a hit and miss sometimes when we try to explain to a customer who bought a cheap $100 nitro car on ebay and expect us to be able to answer and fix the car. As a hobby store - publicly viewed as ambassadors to the hobby, we will answer questions but when there is a need for us to work on their cars (which we don't have parts for), we normally charge a service fee and inform them early that we may not have parts for their cars/trucks.

Support your local hobby store is the best way to gain support.
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Old 05-31-2007, 08:57 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomkelley
i came to this thread looking for info on a NTC5, not some ongoing debate
There is and will be no such car. AE is concentrating their R&D and resources in much of their offroad product group. Someone started this thread to get the rumor mill going and the argument has went off on some peculiar tangent.
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Old 05-31-2007, 09:56 AM   #44
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FYI: A thread has been started to continue the discussion regarding support for local hobby shops
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Old 06-03-2007, 10:03 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solara View Post
You guys skipped the NTC4......
thats exactly what I was going to say.

So no, there will NOT be a NTC5.
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