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Old 05-25-2007, 01:38 AM   #16
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The most frustrating thing is the hobby shops that continue to promote offroad vehicles as being the "perfect starter car" because of the go-anywhere nature. When buying my first RC car a couple of years ago this is what I was told and guess what, that's what I bought. It took me less than a month to realise that onroad driving is what I really want and that's how I ended up with an HPI RS4 and later a V-One RRR for racing. It would be great if most new buyers ended up doing the same but the reality is that it does not take long for it to dawn upon most of them that in our concreate jungles, there are'nt many places to satisfactorily run a 1/8th scale truck, buggy or whatever. So these things either end up being driven onroad or are locked somewhere dark.

In my mind this off-road thing is a trend that is boosted primarily by first time buyers ...most looking either for an adrenaline rush or are just experimenting. Associated and the rest should never lose sight of their staple market ...their daily bread ..US RACERS!!! When trends change and just about every closet has an unused off-road car, it will be the racers who will still be racing, buying parts and buying kits!! This is why my next car will be a Mugen or a Serpent ...there are still some companies who are well aware of where their priorities should be!!
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Old 05-25-2007, 05:01 AM   #17
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I agree!! However it is true that the huge growth of the RTR market has contributed to the problem. RTR's do have their place, but they should be kept in it and the public should be encouraged to purchase kits as well because building the kits will teach them invaluable info about how the car works and how to maintain it. RTR's do not.

Again, you have no doubt noticed that most RTR's are you guessed it, OFFROAD!

What needs to be done is that as many onroad fans as possible need to contact the rc magazines and the manufacturers and demand that they correct this trend!

I have sent emails to some of the rc magazines already requesting that they make offroad and onroad coverage at least 50/50 which would be fair to both camps. But I am just one person and there IS strength in numbers! So we need as many as possible to do the same. And after that email the manufacturers and get on their case about producing more onroad vehicles, nitro and electric.

We need to be vocal and get heard instead of complaining amongst ourselves. I still believe the rc magazines are majorly at fault here as they are the ones who promote this offroad trend(they are on the covers of each issue month after month) so they need to be addressed first.

Your local hobby shop is going to carry what the public wants so you won't get far with them. That is why the rc magazines and the manufacturers are the ones that need to hear from us as they control what the public "thinks" they want.

So get out there and be heard!!
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Old 05-25-2007, 05:53 AM   #18
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I am starting to wonder if offroad vehicles are as indestrucable as they are hyped to be. You got all these backyard bashers with their RTR's who are breaking parts trying to jump their houses ripping out drivetrains popping wheelies and the offroad manufactors are getting rich selling replacment parts. I have spent more money on my offroad vehicles than my onroad cars. I think we are seeing a shift because the up keep for offroad is more expensive than onroad. Offroad is where the money is and it is being hyped by the manufactors, the magazines and the hobbyshops.
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Old 05-25-2007, 06:07 AM   #19
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the internets low prices,RTR's,and the hobby shops refusal (which I don't blame him)to help turn an impulse buyer into a HOBBYIST because the customer has gone with the low price in the internet ad have all contributed to the down fall of the RC hobby in general........



not to mention Video games....
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Old 05-25-2007, 06:25 AM   #20
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I think a good part of it is people come to race and try it and find out they get smoked buy fast guys and don't know how to setup their car and are afraid to ask someone for help or they ask for help and don't get it and i think they just kinda put it on the shelf or play at home. Here comes the RTR'S.
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Old 05-25-2007, 06:40 AM   #21
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Seems like a witches brew it is a combination of small problems that combine to make a hugh problem. The person who usually buys the rtr lacks setup skills, tuning skills because his vehicle was already put togather for him. Then the guy has problems with it, goes to his local hobbyshop where he may encounter an attitude problem from the shop owner because he purchased the vehicle from the internet. Guys at the track are too busy racing and repairing their vehicles for the next heat to really give him the help he needs so he is just out there!! Get frustated and usually ends up putting his vehicle back in the closet. If we want this hobby to survive we need to support our local hobbyshop as much as possible and practical and help out the newbee as much as we can.
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Old 05-25-2007, 02:11 PM   #22
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Everyone here are making some excellent points, I really enjoy reading what you all think about this topic!

I certainly understand the reason for the popularity of the RTR due to the reasons that all of you have outlined. It's unfortunate that most newbies pick an offroad RTR over an onroad RTR most of the time; but that's not really surprising when you consider what else is involved in the decision making.

We in America have become over the past two decades a truck culture and that has a direct influence on what people want in a toy/model/rc. I grew up in the 60's and 70's when the muscle cars and sportscars were the big thing. Every guy, young and old wanted one.
Then during the 80's the trucks started to become more and more popular; and now today most people men AND women would pick a truck or suv over a cool car here in America. The culture has unfortunately changed.
The crazy part is that the 4wd trucks and suv's are what is most popular and yet 90% of the owners never drive them offroad! The same is probably true of the offroad rc vehicles too.
I hope that the success of the new Mustang and the release in '09 of the new Camaro and the Challenger will start to change that trend; that is if the price of gas doesn't ruin it for us all. Yet 4wd trucks get lousey gas mileage and they still sell.

So you see we are also dealing with a skewed auto culture that is influencing what people think they want in an rc vehicle. I hope it changes!!
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Old 05-25-2007, 03:59 PM   #23
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Theres also another problem with people that come from the RTRs to a race car. I see it all the time at my track. It goes like this:

- Guy has an RTR and actually runs it when theres no races in the track.
- Regular racers tell him a race car would be faster so he goes and buys a race kit and engine.
- Guy now has no patience/time to perform the setup/maintenance work required by a race car and so when he tries to run the car it wont go in a straight line.
- Guy quits RC.

Some people are actually better off with a car that doesnt require much setup/maintenance.
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Old 05-25-2007, 05:28 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm_PT
Theres also another problem with people that come from the RTRs to a race car. I see it all the time at my track. It goes like this:

- Guy has an RTR and actually runs it when theres no races in the track.
- Regular racers tell him a race car would be faster so he goes and buys a race kit and engine.
- Guy now has no patience/time to perform the setup/maintenance work required by a race car and so when he tries to run the car it wont go in a straight line.
- Guy quits RC.

Some people are actually better off with a car that doesnt require much setup/maintenance.

some people, as you said need cars like those. but until they feel that they want to be competitive, they can invest in kits by their own decision and interest. its better to really invest on something you know you want because you know what to do.
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Old 05-25-2007, 06:49 PM   #25
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You all make great points. but you have to look how many RTR guys eventualy become hardcore racers(myself included). If only 1 out 10 rtr racers become hardcore racers then the battle is won. Look at your local club and see how many of your members starting racing with a t-maxx thats how I got hooked. I also believe it would be extremely hard to get a club started or expanded without the RTR market. The average Joe is not going to shell out 400 bucks for a kit without an engine,radio or electronics and by the way you have to put it together too!!! This is what turned me away about 20 years ago when I really wanted to get in the hobby. But when the T-maxx came out it allowed me to get my feet wet without breaking the bank. I guess my main point is a RTR veheicle is a great portal into this great hobby of RC racing. You never know the guy who just beat you probally started out with a NTC3 RTR. I believe we need to help the RTR guys and teach them that there is a much better product In buying Kits
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Old 05-25-2007, 07:03 PM   #26
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You know what; here we are discussing the effect RTR's have had and the car that was the original purpose of this topic is an RTR! The NTC3 is an RTR( maybe there is a Factory Team Kit as well; not sure)and any potential replacement for it would likely be an RTR. Yet it's popularity has dropped off not only because it has a dated design but mainly because of what it is not; namely an offroad vehicle!!

So getting back to the original problem; this issue is about the growing popularity of offroad and RTR's as opposed to onroad and kits. And we know who is winning thanks primarily to the rc magazines promoting them month after month after month after month..............................

PLEASE starting next week after the holiday is over email the various magazines: RC Car Action, RC Driver, RC Car,
and Xtreme RC and let them know how you feel about this, and ask them to be more fair in their coverage and content.
Then email the manufacturers and tell them what you, who are responsible for keeping them in business, want!!!

Unfortunately too many people in this country will just go along with whatever trend the media tells them to. It's sad that so many are so weak-minded that they have to be told by a magazine what they want to buy.

I hope that there are others out there who are willing to speak up and try to change this trend and decide for themselves what they like and will buy!
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Old 05-28-2007, 02:08 PM   #27
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Well, no NTC5, are you sure???

2008 World championship fighting against XRay NT1, Asso NTC5, Tamiya TG10X, Serpent 720RC, Mugen MTX4evo, Kyosho RRR Evo08, TM G5, Motonica P10...

A lot of car are on the way...
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Old 05-28-2007, 02:46 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by romuald31
Well, no NTC5, are you sure???

2008 World championship fighting against XRay NT1, Asso NTC5, Tamiya TG10X, Serpent 720RC, Mugen MTX4evo, Kyosho RRR Evo08, TM G5, Motonica P10...

A lot of car are on the way...
Dude, don't start these untrue rumors about cars that will never exist.
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Old 05-29-2007, 08:25 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by romuald31
Well, no NTC5, are you sure???

2008 World championship fighting against XRay NT1, Asso NTC5, Tamiya TG10X, Serpent 720RC, Mugen MTX4evo, Kyosho RRR Evo08, TM G5, Motonica P10...

A lot of car are on the way...
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Old 05-30-2007, 12:32 PM   #30
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You guys made some good points about what is driving the RC market right now. I started with a T-Maxx and ran it like a fiend for a few years, even did a few club races. Then I saw an on-road race and was hooked.

Here is the problem as I see it, especially here in America. Finding a place to run an on-road car is difficult. There needs to be/should be at least one permanent on-road track in every major metro area in this country. Heck, look at all the skate/bike parks. How did they get built? The local community (skate shops, skaters, civic leaders, etc) got together and had them built.

That is where the LHS can be a big help. Unfortunately, most of them go for the quick buck, and now with the internet driving prices to a razor thin margin, they have to do what they feel is best to survive. And that means Truggy, Buggys and MTs. But it's a short term fix that will have grave long term effects for the sport.

Now as for RTR on-road cars (NTC3, CEN, 4Tec) the issue is the manufactures hype one thing...SPEED! So you get these crazy claims of near triple digit speed and people eat it up. So when the see a MTX-4R or 720 '07 sitting on a shelf without an engine or neon graphics, they go for the speed.

Want to revive the sports, here are my suggestions:

1. Have mags cover more of the on-road Regional and National races
2. Manufactures (CEN, HPI, AE, Traxxas) should make RTRs that are easily configurable to race-worthiness. Look at Team Magic's G4S RTR for an example.
3. More racing venue's locally. Even if the hobby shops have to ban together, in the end it will benefit them all if there is a track where at least monthly races are held (whether perm or a prepped parking lot)

and most importantly
4. WE RACERS/HOBBYIST NEED TO SUPPORT THE LHS BY BUYING FROM THEM! Yeah, I'm a little passionate about this one. I get sick to death of seeing threads "Where can I find cheapest price on XXX"? And the answers are always, try www.qwerty.com or whatever. Look, if you are about to spend $400 for a kit, saving $15 dollars should not be that big of a deal, when you consider all the help you can get from the people at the LHS if you buy the kit/RTR from them. And them people wonder why the LHS person looks at them cross-eyed when the come in wanting advice on how to set up the car they got on the 'net.

Sure, I could have gotten my Mugen for a little less on-line (hell, a lot less if you consider I had to drive 30 miles one-way in DC traffic to the LHS where I bought it) but as someone who has ran a business I know how difficult it is to compete. The internet companies have little or no overhead; no building to rent, few employees, no electric or water bills, etc. So the can operate on a razors margin and make it up in volume. Your LHS can't.

So the next time you want to get that 4mm chassis and it's online for $45 and the LHS has it for $55, suck it up and help the guy out. Hell, get to know them, build a report and they may get it to you for $50. But either way, you are helping the sport buy keeping the grass roots strong.

My apologies, did not mean to go on a rant.
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