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Old 06-25-2007, 10:41 PM   #121
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Originally Posted by Ted Flack View Post
Dale,

I don't think I would call it "un-balanced", it may be perfect for guys with too much steering but if you want more steering all that is required is to move it forward. There is plenty of downforce, seems like a great problem to me, if you want rear balance put it on in one location if you want more front balance move it the other. Total is the key, as you have heard me say before "downforce is king every day in every way"!!!! This body give us the option of which end we want the balance to be.

Please don't take away total! If you want to do anything show two mounting positions on the body lines.

Ted
Ted is correct. Two sets of markings for holes would be perfect.
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Old 06-25-2007, 10:46 PM   #122
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Do you guys run the wing?
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Old 06-26-2007, 06:09 AM   #123
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Do you guys run the wing?

Pretty much everyone runs the wing..as it helps with rear grip..

I "had" the light weight version of the shadow...only got to test it for a couple of laps as a mate of mine put it on its roof...the body pretty much shattered..never buying lightweight again.. Will buy the thicker version as they are much more durable!
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Old 06-26-2007, 06:26 AM   #124
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Do you guys run the wing?
I would say that most people run the wing/wicker, however, if you have plenty of rear grip and are looking for steering or less drag try removing it. Some guys have been running the Shadow with the wing removed, like the guy (Eli) that TQ'd last weekend at the Midwest Series Race in Detroit.

Ted
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Old 06-26-2007, 09:38 AM   #125
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Ted, did you open up the front tunnels? I was running the Shadow on Sat. but swithced to the R10 for Sunday. I have them upened up on the R10 but not the Shadow. I got more steering with the R10 but don't know how much difference the openning would make.
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Old 06-26-2007, 10:14 AM   #126
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Open tunnels

I've heard from a couple of respected 1/8th on-road racers that steering increased when the front tunnels were opened up on the Shadow. In theory it should work that way. But as we know when it comes to aerodynamics theory, it's never 100% accurate. (Just ask the Dodge boys in NASCAR - with the numerous nose mods that they've tried - only to be befuddled one more time - and they have access to some amazingly sophisticated windtunnels and CFD programs.) Same situation with the Honda F1 team in 2007. They are aerodynamically "lost" - even with a 300 million dollar a year budget and brilliant designers, engineers and aerodynamisists.

There's still nothing like "real world" testing.

Dale
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Old 06-26-2007, 11:03 AM   #127
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(Just ask the Dodge boys in NASCAR - with the numerous nose mods that they've tried - only to be befuddled one more time - and they have access to some amazingly sophisticated windtunnels and CFD programs.)

Dale
Hey wait a minte, that's me your talking about!!!!!!!!!!!

Actually if we could move the body up and down and back and forth we would be able to make them work better. We have a huge tool to work with that most full size race cars don't have. Four years ago NASCAR allowed bodies to be moved back and forth but they have since stopped that. It's almost always a case of BALANCE, making downforce is one thing, drag is another, hence we always look for good L/D but balance is really important whether you have a lot of total or not so much you have to get the right balance.

Two weeks ago at Michigan with the trucks we had too much front and no matter what we did to the chassis you could not tighten the vehicle up until we reduced the front downforce which actually reduced total but made the balance better.

But you are correct Dale, track testing is all that really matters!

Ted
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Old 06-26-2007, 11:22 AM   #128
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Ted, did you open up the front tunnels?
Were is it?
I know in the front but what parts of it?
Thanks for your help
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Old 06-26-2007, 03:33 PM   #129
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Ted;
No offence intended - honestly. I was only referring to to things that I've heard guys like Ray Evernham say on SPEED TV regarding the ongoing balance vs. nose shape dilemna. I noticed Kahne even ran a 2006 front clip a couple of weeks ago in Michigan, hoping it might help him gain his 2006 form - but alas he was still uncompetitive.
I guess this is what makes the whole topic such a challenge for me personally. There's no free lunch.

Dale
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Old 06-26-2007, 05:33 PM   #130
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Originally Posted by daleepp View Post
I've heard from a couple of respected 1/8th on-road racers that steering increased when the front tunnels were opened up on the Shadow. In theory it should work that way. But as we know when it comes to aerodynamics theory, it's never 100% accurate. (Just ask the Dodge boys in NASCAR - with the numerous nose mods that they've tried - only to be befuddled one more time - and they have access to some amazingly sophisticated windtunnels and CFD programs.) Same situation with the Honda F1 team in 2007. They are aerodynamically "lost" - even with a 300 million dollar a year budget and brilliant designers, engineers and aerodynamisists.

There's still nothing like "real world" testing.

Dale

This is the best post on this forum for the week. Thanks and keep up the good work on the bodies. I look forward to testing one myself.
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Old 06-26-2007, 08:29 PM   #131
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Originally Posted by Ted Flack View Post
I would say that most people run the wing/wicker, however, if you have plenty of rear grip and are looking for steering or less drag try removing it. Some guys have been running the Shadow with the wing removed, like the guy (Eli) that TQ'd last weekend at the Midwest Series Race in Detroit.

Ted
It just seems like there is almost a vertical rear spoiler? Any more height, would be a wall
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Old 06-27-2007, 05:11 PM   #132
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Ran the shadow this weekend in florida, car was very planted, had to take away some rear bite by going to less rear toe. I think it will be great, will need less mechanical bite in chassis. Everything clears MRX4r chassis very well, except muffler. pressure hose at top was against the bubble and melted thru. Glad to see Dale & Protoform come out with a great new body.
I have always had good luck with protoform race bodies, going all the way back to my OVAL days at Mike Boylans Thunder raceway in Tampa.
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Old 06-27-2007, 09:13 PM   #133
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Where did he get the grey GRP wheels for the shadow? I want some
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Old 06-27-2007, 10:50 PM   #134
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Originally Posted by Randyc View Post
Ran the shadow this weekend in florida, car was very planted, had to take away some rear bite by going to less rear toe. I think it will be great, will need less mechanical bite in chassis. Everything clears MRX4r chassis very well, except muffler. pressure hose at top was against the bubble and melted thru. Glad to see Dale & Protoform come out with a great new body.
I have always had good luck with protoform race bodies, going all the way back to my OVAL days at Mike Boylans Thunder raceway in Tampa.
I spoted that prob stright away when cutting and mounting the body for the first time here is pic's of what i did to solve the prob. I used 3mm inside dia fuel tube silcon and mounted it as in the pic's i also put some tape inside the body to stop the fuel tube and pipe from rubbing on the body. Best Regards Jeremy.
Attached Thumbnails
New Protoform Shadow 1/8th body-sany0001.jpg   New Protoform Shadow 1/8th body-sany0002%7E1.jpg   New Protoform Shadow 1/8th body-sany0003%7E1.jpg  
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Old 07-02-2007, 09:16 PM   #135
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i ran the shadow body for the first time this weekend. all i can say is AWESOME! love the downforce it gives. great body all around.

Aaron
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