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Old 05-15-2007, 06:16 AM   #1
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Default Traction Roll ?

what do you mean by "Traction Roll"?

is it mean over grip condition?

and then car go very inactive?


and.. what setup is exist in Traction Roll solving?

like this?

1) 3mm-> 4mm chassis replacement
2) harder tire hardness
3) roll center change
4) etc on..
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Old 05-15-2007, 06:42 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gansei
what do you mean by "Traction Roll"?

is it mean over grip condition?

and then car go very inactive?


and.. what setup is exist in Traction Roll solving?

like this?

1) 3mm-> 4mm chassis replacement
2) harder tire hardness
3) roll center change
4) etc on..
Traction Roll to me is when the car "grips" the surface so much that the suspension is compressed to the max and the chassis rolls over so much it flips the car on its top.

Solving the problem,
1. Harder tires (typically fronts) to over come the excessive traction.
2. Stiffer springs (again typically in the front)
3. Roll center changes and or ride height changes.

You are trying to go from an extreme oversteer situation to more of an understeer.

Traction rolls usually occur because the car suspension too soft for the track conditions...or the track surface is excessivly sticky.

Doug
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Old 05-15-2007, 06:43 AM   #3
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Correct, a traction roll occurs when the car has too much grip and flips over. Sometimes from the front if it occurs early in the corner, and from the rear if it occurs toward the middle or exit.

Harder tires are usually the easiest fix, stiffer springs can help as well. I recently tried just about all of the roll center adjustments when 45 durometer tires were already being used and never really found a way to stop it completely other than driving considerably slower and making very slow steering inputs.
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Old 05-15-2007, 07:11 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brianhatesnitro
Correct, a traction roll occurs when the car has too much grip and flips over. Sometimes from the front if it occurs early in the corner, and from the rear if it occurs toward the middle or exit.

Harder tires are usually the easiest fix, stiffer springs can help as well. I recently tried just about all of the roll center adjustments when 45 durometer tires were already being used and never really found a way to stop it completely other than driving considerably slower and making very slow steering inputs.

change your ackerman on the steering, this helps alot to stop initial roll
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Old 05-15-2007, 07:20 AM   #5
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My trouble was near the apex, the kyosho team drivers at the race had some 45 rear tires that felt considerably harder than the kyosho 45's that I was able to obtain that seemed to help them out a bit.

I'm still running the old shock setup with the gold/black springs so that alone may have been most of my trouble that day. Too bad my track only gets high traction a couple times per year so I can't really test much.
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Old 05-15-2007, 09:19 AM   #6
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You can also use the suspension travel limiters in the front. You slide a credit card under the chassis, and press down on the front end so the chassis touches. Then screw down on the travel limiters so the front end won't go and lower.
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Old 05-15-2007, 11:32 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rapid Roy
You can also use the suspension travel limiters in the front. You slide a credit card under the chassis, and press down on the front end so the chassis touches. Then screw down on the travel limiters so the front end won't go and lower.
Cool trick! Thanks for sharing.
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Old 05-15-2007, 12:28 PM   #8
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thanks a lot!! for many your advice..
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Old 05-15-2007, 12:33 PM   #9
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Quote:
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thanks a lot!! for many your advice..
Wow, cannot sleep ?

Me too........
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Old 05-15-2007, 12:37 PM   #10
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Would it be right to say that the surface has very high traction which lends to the car having too much mechanical grip !!! Hence the need to stiffen the car up to stop or slow down suspension movement and weight transfer.
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Old 05-15-2007, 02:09 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by razzor
Would it be right to say that the surface has very high traction which lends to the car having too much mechanical grip !!! Hence the need to stiffen the car up to stop or slow down suspension movement and weight transfer.
I would agree with that most of the time

However, I believe it is possible for a track to have good / average grip and a car can be setup too soft which would cause exessive grip and thus traction roll. In either case, stiffer suspension / harder tires tend to resolve the issue.

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Old 05-15-2007, 03:19 PM   #12
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a solid front axe also helps a lot to eliminate the traction roll....
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Old 05-15-2007, 03:25 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eduardo_garcia
a solid front axe also helps a lot to eliminate the traction roll....
usually stiffer front springs,tire and stiffer front sway bar can take care of that
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Old 05-15-2007, 03:54 PM   #14
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To be honest I think that stiffening the car is bad thing for traction roll inssues and that is were most people go wrong. the car flips because the suspension is so hard that the chassis can not roll and instead just flips. you need more chassis roll to help the traction roll issue. IMO you can make the car soften or I like to take off a sway bar, most of the time the front. the harder tires and roll center postition is also key and yes you do want to take traction away fron the front to help.
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Old 05-15-2007, 03:58 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dj apolaro
To be honest I think that stiffening the car is bad thing for traction roll inssues and that is were most people go wrong. the car flips because the suspension is so hard that the chassis can not roll and instead just flips. you need more chassis roll to help the traction roll issue. IMO you can make the car soften or I like to take off a sway bar, most of the time the front. the harder tires and roll center postition is also key and yes you do want to take traction away fron the front to help.
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