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Old 05-16-2007, 01:37 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcsquish
If anyone wants to experance traction rolling and you are in the eastern US, come to the Great Lakes Challenge in OH. 1/8 scale usually start traction rolling by the first day of heats.............

This is true.
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Old 05-16-2007, 01:57 PM   #47
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Something that no one has brought up is the fact that traction roll can happen at different stages of cornering.

The most common is at corner entry but it is also not uncommon to get traction roll at mid-corner and I have also seen cars flipping at just before corner exit (at a particular track, off-camber). If I have time I'll dig up some video footage to show you all these different situations (but first I gotta do the NT1 test drive video ).

This explains why there are two apparent "conflicting" schools of thought in this thread on how to prevent traction roll. Different people set their car up for their driving style and hence when they experience traction roll, it could well be different to what some others experience and hence their own experience of the different things that work getting rid of traction roll would be different to what some of you have found.

BTW I'm talking about outdoor nitro onroad here, not indoor carpet EP.

Just my 2 cents' worth.
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Old 05-16-2007, 11:46 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gansei
mecamo fuel is easily get rust and carbon.

take a care in break-in PLUS 2 engine!!
Yung2 told you ??

Somebody also told me about that....... his mechanic break engine for his boss with mecamo fuel and the mechanic didn't clean the engine right away. After two days, the mechanic see some rust
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Old 05-17-2007, 02:22 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asw7576
Yung2 told you ??

Somebody also told me about that....... his mechanic break engine for his boss with mecamo fuel and the mechanic didn't clean the engine right away. After two days, the mechanic see some rust
i have not been talked with yung2.

i already tested mecamo fuel in korea.

i had a experience very terrible carbon and rust!!
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Old 05-17-2007, 04:10 AM   #50
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Default Traction Roll.

To kinda summarize some of the things above.

1) I have to agree with DJ and Scott F, and others on softer springs and disconnecting the front sway bar. During ridiculous traction condition you want to make the cars suspension lazier. It makes the car LESS reactive and more predictable. On low speed corners having a softer suspension will allow the car to roll more, and actually give you more time too feel and see where the edge is on traction rolling(for braking or countersteer)

2) Spools also help reduce turn-in steering.

3) Running smaller front tires, running narrower fronts, running harder shore fronts and CA gluing the outside edges of front tires all help. The thing here is to do the least to stop the traction roll.
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Old 05-17-2007, 07:05 AM   #51
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I have noticed that with the RRR when I raised the rear lower hinge pins all the way up, the car stopped traction rolling. When the rear arms were all the way down, I flipped at a much slower speed, everything else remaining the same. Has anyone else seen this? Some people say you should go lower with the rear lower arms, but my own testing shows me the opposite. A long time ago someone told me to go softer to avoid traction rolling, but I always ended up going stiffer to avoid flipping. It allowed me to be more aggressive without flipping. When I raised the rear upper hinge pins I could see the car lean, and then hit a point where it would go no further, it hooked up and chattered a bit, but it would not flip. With the low rear arms there was no warning, just bam flip. Some people say the opposite. Maybe each cars geometry works differently, or each track requires different setups to avoid flipping.
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Old 05-17-2007, 08:02 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grinder
I have noticed that with the RRR when I raised the rear lower hinge pins all the way up, the car stopped traction rolling. When the rear arms were all the way down, I flipped at a much slower speed, everything else remaining the same. Has anyone else seen this? Some people say you should go lower with the rear lower arms, but my own testing shows me the opposite. A long time ago someone told me to go softer to avoid traction rolling, but I always ended up going stiffer to avoid flipping. It allowed me to be more aggressive without flipping. When I raised the rear upper hinge pins I could see the car lean, and then hit a point where it would go no further, it hooked up and chattered a bit, but it would not flip. With the low rear arms there was no warning, just bam flip. Some people say the opposite. Maybe each cars geometry works differently, or each track requires different setups to avoid flipping.

Grinder, sounds like the RRR is like the 720. In the 720, if I lower the rear arms, I am lowering the rear roll-center. In general I use this to avoid traction roll when it happens at corner entry.

Of course, we have to remember that roll-centers (front and rear) form a line around which the car rolls so you have to consider what is your front roll center too.
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Old 05-17-2007, 10:55 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grinder
I have noticed that with the RRR when I raised the rear lower hinge pins all the way up, the car stopped traction rolling. When the rear arms were all the way down, I flipped at a much slower speed, everything else remaining the same. Has anyone else seen this? Some people say you should go lower with the rear lower arms, but my own testing shows me the opposite. A long time ago someone told me to go softer to avoid traction rolling, but I always ended up going stiffer to avoid flipping. It allowed me to be more aggressive without flipping. When I raised the rear upper hinge pins I could see the car lean, and then hit a point where it would go no further, it hooked up and chattered a bit, but it would not flip. With the low rear arms there was no warning, just bam flip. Some people say the opposite. Maybe each cars geometry works differently, or each track requires different setups to avoid flipping.
This is what happened in MTX3. When I put C block ( high roll center ), the traction roll at low speed corner suddenly become less frequent. As the name implies, it really means high roll center ( harder to roll ).
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Old 05-17-2007, 11:10 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gansei
i have not been talked with yung2.

i already tested mecamo fuel in korea.

i had a experience very terrible carbon and rust!!

I went to circuit with Yung2 today for engine break in. I think Meccamo fuel is okay. The fuel color is clear just like O'donnell, and smell like it.

BTW, I also saw all sort of preparation being done inside the track and track facilities. It's gonna be photo perfect

I'll be re-testing my car on Thursday for 2speed clutch ( another test for spare clutch ).

Okay Gansei, see you in Jakarta !!! Your flight is tommorow, right ?? Have a nice flight to Jakarta !!!
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Old 05-17-2007, 10:05 PM   #55
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The best of luck Gansei !
Show them all what a G4s can really do !!

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Old 07-19-2008, 08:11 PM   #56
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I know this thread is a bit old, but I thought I'd bring it back...

I came home today really frustrated from the track... No matter what I did, I still got traction roll... I could not really test the car at night after the qualifiers because the traction was stupid, the tires felt like chewing gum.

After reading this (I did a search on other threads for traction roll and this was the best one I saw)... Theres another point that was not covered, is traction roll caused differently if its on-power or off-power???

Any idea how to know if my solution is going stiffer or softer??? Just trial and error?

With tires... I already went to 42 front, 45 rear, this is the only tires I got for the main race tomorrow and its going to be 1 hour, so shaving a few mms at the back is out of the question or going softer on either.

Any other suggestions as to try to stop getting traction roll?

If it helps, I'm getting traction roll,on-power at the middle of the corner...
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Old 07-19-2008, 08:24 PM   #57
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Can you go harder on the tires? If not, stiffen up the suspension with either springs or swaybars or both.
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Old 07-19-2008, 08:44 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wingracer View Post
Can you go harder on the tires? If not, stiffen up the suspension with either springs or swaybars or both.
all around or front only?
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Old 07-19-2008, 08:51 PM   #59
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All around would be best.
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Old 07-20-2008, 04:55 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcos.J View Post
more roll you have the more traction roll you will get , thats why in carpet foam the cars are stiff as shi%
Keep in mind that we are discussing nitro cars and not electric.
Also i believe that carpet racing is a bit different to running on high traction out door tracks!

I tend to agree with Dj as i have found that stiffening the car up more tends to make the traction roll worse.
Also i have found that running smaller diameter tyres tends to work much better than a 62mm-60mm set and the car drifts through the corners in stead of flipping over!!
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