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Old 04-10-2003, 10:37 AM   #1
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Default Mugen MR12 vs. Mugen MT12

Posted this over at RCCA, too...

I'm doing research for an engine for the NTC3 I plan on buying this summer, and I'm looking at either of these engines. I know both are great engines, and both are fast, but what are the main differences in performance between the two? I vaguely recall hearing that one has more top end than the other, and the other has more bottom end, but I'm not sure which was which. Anyone?
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Old 04-10-2003, 10:41 AM   #2
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MT12 is the older, long rod engine. More torque. Still a great engine by any standards. MR12 is the newer, short rod engine. "Turbo" crank. High revving. I like them both but if I had to pick one, I'd choose the MR12
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Old 04-10-2003, 10:44 AM   #3
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Default Re: Mugen MR12 vs. Mugen MT12

Quote:
Originally posted by speedydave
Posted this over at RCCA, too...

I'm doing research for an engine for the NTC3 I plan on buying this summer, and I'm looking at either of these engines. I know both are great engines, and both are fast, but what are the main differences in performance between the two? I vaguely recall hearing that one has more top end than the other, and the other has more bottom end, but I'm not sure which was which. Anyone?
MT-12 have longer conrod, while MR-12 have shorter conrod. The MT-12 have more bottom end compare to MR-12, using the same gear ratio, while MR-12 have good top-end. With proper gear ratio, the MR-12 will have better bottom end, same goes to MT-12 with proper gear ratio, can have good top end. Also, apart from performance, i know the MR-12 comes with rubber seal bearing on the front, while MT-12 is a metal seal. According to Mugen/Novarossi, the MR-12 is the better upgrade version of MT-12.
Owner of both engine.
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Old 04-10-2003, 12:15 PM   #4
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My buddy has an Mt-12 and I have a MR-12. they are both good motors, but the MR-12 seems to have a bit more overall power. I have a centex clutch on my car so I still get the low end power that he does, but with more top end power. Overall, I think they are both very soild motors. If Mugen made a new replacement for the MT-12 there must have been a reason to produce the MR-12.
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Old 04-10-2003, 06:08 PM   #5
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I think that the mid-range power of the MR12 is the major improvement from what I see. It is very strong there. Its topend isn't 'the strongest', but it keeps up very well (and better than the MT12). I like the MR12 at my track.
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Old 04-10-2003, 07:18 PM   #6
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I dunno, its the fastest engine I've had so far.
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Old 04-11-2003, 02:01 PM   #7
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ive read that u can replace the mt12 carburator with OS carburator. whats the reason for this? also can i put the mr12 crankshaft in mt12 engine that way the mt12 can have shorter conrod. many thnx
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Old 04-11-2003, 02:05 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by penggoy
ive read that u can replace the mt12 carburator with OS carburator. whats the reason for this? also can i put the mr12 crankshaft in mt12 engine that way the mt12 can have shorter conrod. many thnx
I have bought the MR-12 Sleeve and Piston to use on my RS12. They are the same thing. Should this apply to MT12, as well?

Last edited by eddiethefish; 04-11-2003 at 03:59 PM.
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Old 04-11-2003, 02:23 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by penggoy
ive read that u can replace the mt12 carburator with OS carburator. whats the reason for this? also can i put the mr12 crankshaft in mt12 engine that way the mt12 can have shorter conrod. many thnx
Nope, cannot do that to acheive the short stroke. The MT12 and other Nova based long rod engines have their sleeve sitting higher in the crankcase. You can swap out crankshafts. You would have to keep the long conrod though.
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Old 04-11-2003, 03:48 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by rod_b
Nope, cannot do that to acheive the short stroke. The MT12 and other Nova based long rod engines have their sleeve sitting higher in the crankcase. You can swap out crankshafts. You would have to keep the long conrod though.
thnx rod.
1. whats the reason why some people are putting OS carburator on their MT12?

2. how can u remove the paint on engine head? i want to make it just plain aluminum color.
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Old 04-11-2003, 08:18 PM   #11
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Default Re: Mugen MR12 vs. Mugen MT12

Quote:
Originally posted by speedydave
Posted this over at RCCA, too...

I'm doing research for an engine for the NTC3 I plan on buying this summer, and I'm looking at either of these engines. I know both are great engines, and both are fast, but what are the main differences in performance between the two? I vaguely recall hearing that one has more top end than the other, and the other has more bottom end, but I'm not sure which was which. Anyone?
For the NTC3 I would recommend the MT-12 because of the pipe your car is designed to use. The short stroke, high rev, MR likes torquier, fatter pipes to get good bottom end response in it's smaller powerband. The MT won't have the RPM's but has a wider powerband, enabling wider gearing choices. The trick then is to run an rpm favoring pipe with the MT to allow the top end to unload. I think the Associated car, from what I've seen, runs best with the MT because of it's pipe. RD Logics is coming out with a new pipe for the NTC3 though, maybe the hot ticket....
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Old 04-11-2003, 08:20 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by penggoy
thnx rod.
1. whats the reason why some people are putting OS carburator on their MT12?
Because they're scared of Novarossi 3 needle carbs.
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Old 04-11-2003, 08:27 PM   #13
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i have had them both and i prefer the mr-12

doesnt seem to be any slower on bottom end and it runs better on the top

i am pretty sure the reason mugen has switched is partially because they needed more top end on the mtx3 because the mtx2 was kinda slow on big tracks and partially due to the fact novarossi seems to favor the short stroke now at least it seems for their onroad engines

and like someone said with different pipe setups and gearing either motor can achieve great performance

but with the overall gearing of mugen cars we need more rpm vs the ntc3 needs more torque

i think a great engine for a ntc3 would probably be the sts modified mt-12

so i think for the ntc3 mt-12 may be the better choice even though i like the mr-12 better for myself
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