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Old 04-30-2007, 10:03 PM   #1
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Default Foam Tire Questions

Do most people run the same shore tires on the front and back or harder tires in back? What's the most common? I hear the rear tires will wear faster.

Also, what's the difference between the Jaco yellow and white wheels? Are the current white ones the 5 spoke or 10 spoke? Will they both fit the new NT1 hubs?
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Old 04-30-2007, 10:16 PM   #2
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It depends on your driving style. Some people like to run the same shore all the way around.

As for the rims, they are just color differences and either will work on the Nt1. They use standars hex hubs.
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Old 04-30-2007, 11:48 PM   #3
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In the past 2 years I would say that 80% of the time I run harder tires on the rear and the rest of the time I run the same shore front and rear. This is on a sedan.
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Old 05-01-2007, 01:29 AM   #4
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Ideally, you would want to use the same shore tire on all four corners and be able to maintain the same tire split during an entire race...

Are there tracks that allow for this? I wouldn't know. We only have one track here and it likes to eat same as front shore rear tires faster than Pacman.

So what you want to do, is adjust the tire shore to best maintain the split during the course of the race, while ensuring that your car is handling well. It's a compromise. Having your rear tires get smaller than your fronts is a bad thing, so you want to avoid this if at all possible. Some people run different left/right shore rear tires, in situations in which one side wears more than the other. Some people will also send their cars out with different size tires on all four corners to account for tire wear and/or split as well.

If you're having a bad day and you just can't seem to find a good setup for the car (or you just run out of time or you're having other issues), you might even decide to run a higher shore up front than in the rear. If the rears wear faster than the fronts, well you know...

What some people do, is run a higher than normal split to account for rear tire wear - so instead of running a 1.5-2.0mm split, they will run a larger split - but this affects a number of other things as well, so you're introducing another set of issues that you have to deal with. (Help me out here guys, I haven't done enough research for the Foam Tire KB yet to know all the other issues off the top of my head.)

Also keep in mind, that qualifier/main duration is also a factor. There are things you can get away with in a qualifier that you can't get away with in a main.

So what does all of this mean to you? If you're just club racing on the same track all the time, your tire wear is pretty predictable and you'll quickly figure out what the best tire shore combination is. If you run on different tracks, you need to be prepared for anything.

Hope this helps...
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Old 05-01-2007, 01:52 AM   #5
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Why is it ideal to run the same shore front and rear? I understand why you would want to keep the split the same for the duration.

As you stated, I know many other drivers do sometimes run different shore tires from side to side (I have not but many have) and I have run different sizes from right to left. Most tracks seem to wear the left side tires more than the right side due to running the tracks clockwise.
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Old 05-01-2007, 04:44 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Fisher
Why is it ideal to run the same shore front and rear?
My understanding is, use the same shore tires on all fours to determine the hardest shore that can be used for a given track, in conjunction with adjusting the setup. Evaluate the rear tire wear and then adjust the rear tire shore according, to include any additional setup adjustments. So "ideally" you would not have to run a harder tire shore in the rear.

Does this make sense?
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Old 05-01-2007, 05:13 AM   #7
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This is how Ive heard.

A softer shore provides more forward grip , while a harder shore provides more side bite.

Since the rear wheels provide most of the forward grip its best to run a lower shore in the rear. While the front you run a harder shore since its duties are mainly turning grip.

Then to maintain split you run 1-2mm smaller diameter at the front. Then at the end of the race if you should have it so that the fronts are still smaller than the rears.

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Old 05-01-2007, 06:04 AM   #8
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i always try to run the same shore all the way around and then true my tyres so that the 'ideal' overdrive ratio is achieved towards the middle of the race. e.g. instead of having a 2mm split i will true my tyres so that i have a 2.5mm split at the beginning of a race to allow for tyre wear.
this is not important in a 5 minute qualifying run.

also, foam tyres do not wear at the same rate throughout the whole race.
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Old 05-01-2007, 06:35 AM   #9
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I've almost always ran harder tires in the rear. Sometimes even a split combination in the rear 45/42 or 42/40 when thier is more tires wear on one side or another. At times, I've had an issue where a harder tire in the front gave more grip than softer ones due to track conditions and the tires getting "greasy", causing a push. So Overall I would say that you have to experiment with tires to get the most out of the car depending on track conditions. It is easier to tune with the tires than to adjust the car.
As a rule of thumb, I always try different shore tires before I start adjusting the car.

If I rub the tires with my thumb and it feels oily, I go to a harder tire before I go softer.
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Old 05-01-2007, 06:49 AM   #10
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Thanks for all the info, guys. Very helpful. I'll try a couple different combos and see what works.

My next question would be about "split". Are split and overdrive the same thing? This is running a larger diameter in the rear, correct?

Is this done to compensate only for rear tire wear or is there a performance benefit to running a larger tire in the rear? Is this done with the goal of ending the race with tires of equal diameter or is it ideal to maintain the split? How does the larger rear tire make the car handle?

Also, are brand new tires trued down like carpet foams or do most just run tires right out of the box with the possible exception of truing the fronts for a split.
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Old 05-01-2007, 11:21 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmdhawaii
My understanding is, use the same shore tires on all fours to determine the hardest shore that can be used for a given track, in conjunction with adjusting the setup. Evaluate the rear tire wear and then adjust the rear tire shore according, to include any additional setup adjustments. So "ideally" you would not have to run a harder tire shore in the rear.

Does this make sense?

No, it doesn't make any sense to me. If it makes you feel any better, I don't agree with AI either with regards to running softer tires in the rear. I think in the end, run what gives you the fastest laps, the best consistancy, and ease of driving for the length of the race. As it is, the fronts are made of different rubber and different width. I don't see how it really is better/or worse to run any pre-determined shore combo. Run what works best overall.
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Old 05-01-2007, 11:39 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Fisher
No, it doesn't make any sense to me.
So how do you decide what shore tire to run?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Fisher
If it makes you feel any better, I don't agree with AI either with regards to running softer tires in the rear.
I understand why A.I. is saying what he is saying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Fisher
I think in the end, run what gives you the fastest laps, the best consistency, and ease of driving for the length of the race. As it is, the fronts are made of different rubber and different width. I don't see how it really is better/or worse to run any pre-determined shore combo. Run what works best overall.
Whatever works Scott. I didn't expect anyone to change what they are doing.
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Old 05-01-2007, 11:48 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Fisher
No, it doesn't make any sense to me. If it makes you feel any better, I don't agree with AI either with regards to running softer tires in the rear. I think in the end, run what gives you the fastest laps, the best consistancy, and ease of driving for the length of the race. As it is, the fronts are made of different rubber and different width. I don't see how it really is better/or worse to run any pre-determined shore combo. Run what works best overall.
My theories come from the XXX Main Setup Book. Its basically putting the correct tire for the duty at hand. The fronts are setup to turn , the rear is setup to move the car forward. Even the rear is overdriven , so the fronts have less forward acceleration and more grip available to turn the car or turning duty. Kinda the same theory as a RWD sports car. Front wheels turning duty is 100% and rear wheel duty is 100% forward grip. The same kinda theory is here except with the 4wd setup too allow more grip during forward motion due to the overpowered nature of rc cars. While still leaving enough for the front to boost steering. Same reason why the rear is wider. More forward grip and the front is smaller , smaller tire patch puts more weight on the tire.

This is why youll also find most people in auto-x , they run there tires at 45-50psi at the front and lower than the stock reccomended 35psi in the rear. The front tires turn , they need to be harder as well when you slam on the brakes the car wont squish down as much on the tire or youll get less tire roll over.

Higher shore tires will grip more lateral wise , where a lower shore tire grips more forward wise.

Sticking a harder tire in the rear is bad idea if you ask me. Your more or less removing forward grip in favor of better wear. Which works for sure , but as far as that is concerend it would probably be easier to just run the same all around and overdrive the rear less. With a harder rear youll probably find more response , as well more oversteer. Which both would capitalize on each other and unless your acustom to a loose style , ok.

But this is just my thoughts on the issue and rubber/air filled tire is surely different than a foam tire. So as far as me being right or anything , thats not the case on that point. Its pointing out the basics of the car setup and what its trying to accomplish.

Also a good point to note is for everyone , what did your car kit come with? Was it the same shore all around or did it have softer on one end. I know my mugen the kit came with 40's all around so its a good bet that the mugen designers felt this was the best setup or base setup. But its still worth it to adjust your car to the track layout , track bumpiness , track grip , heat conditions and your own driving styles and or tire budget.

I also believe my r40 , which was easier on the rear tires. Was 40F / 37R setup. Which makes sense as the rear wears less anyhow so they put a softer tire back there.

But thats a good start and could even been seen as how much money and testing the manufacturer might have done to pick the right tire setup for the stoc setup. Probably a lot. So sometimes its best to use that R&D to your advantage. Check those stock setups and play around and sometimes take it back to stock, see what you think later down the road. Its funny how day to day your thinking can change.

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Old 05-01-2007, 11:59 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlamMan
Thanks for all the info, guys. Very helpful. I'll try a couple different combos and see what works.

My next question would be about "split". Are split and overdrive the same thing? This is running a larger diameter in the rear, correct?

Is this done to compensate only for rear tire wear or is there a performance benefit to running a larger tire in the rear? Is this done with the goal of ending the race with tires of equal diameter or is it ideal to maintain the split? How does the larger rear tire make the car handle?

Also, are brand new tires trued down like carpet foams or do most just run tires right out of the box with the possible exception of truing the fronts for a split.
As you probably know, the car itself has an internal ratio. Running a split alters that ratio. Here is a thread on overdrive that you may find helpful: http://www.rctech.net/forum/showthread.php?t=150719

For racing, you should always true your tires to the right size. In qualifiers, you want to run smaller sized tires, both front and rear.
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Old 05-01-2007, 12:03 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlamMan
My next question would be about "split". Are split and overdrive the same thing? This is running a larger diameter in the rear, correct?
Is this done to compensate only for rear tire wear or is there a performance benefit to running a larger tire in the rear? Is this done with the goal of ending the race with tires of equal diameter or is it ideal to maintain the split? How does the larger rear tire make the car handle?
Also, are brand new tires trued down like carpet foams or do most just run tires right out of the box with the possible exception of truing the fronts for a split.
The split is how you obtain the over/under drive you want. the rears are always larger. I personally shoot for 2mm with the Kyosho but change it slightly to compensate for excessive tire wear whether it be front or rear. It would be rare to run the tires the size out of the box unless they have already been cut down by the manufacturer. I run smaller tires to qualify (62/60) or smaller when re-using ones that have been run already. For 30 minute mains or longer (63/61). As far as shore, I try combinations that deliver the best performance first and fine tune set up from there. Your best tuning tool is tires. Rcfoolz explained it pretty good.
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