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Old 05-01-2007, 12:03 PM   #16
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Default Side bite

It is not true that harder tires have more side bite. Like scott says about 80 % of the time i run softer in front. If i run the same front and rear the car pushes and you have to put more steering input into it then when the car slows enough to turn it may get loose in the center of the corner. This makes the car very hard to drive.
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Old 05-01-2007, 12:10 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by latemodel13
It is not true that harder tires have more side bite. Like scott says about 80 % of the time i run softer in front. If i run the same front and rear the car pushes and you have to put more steering input into it then when the car slows enough to turn it may get loose in the center of the corner. This makes the car very hard to drive.
Your entitled to your opinion. Im just pointing out this is what has been said in the XXX main setup book which is loosely based off of a major tuning book for real cars , called "racing car vehicle dynamics." In a more simplified form and for RC.
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Old 05-01-2007, 12:30 PM   #18
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As a side note, none of the corrective actions in the Hudy Setup book suggests increasing or decreasing your tire shore to address handling issues. When I first started racing, I used tire shore to address handling issues, but my philosophy on this changed for a number of reasons, so I've been using the suspension settings and diff oil to address handling issues.

One thing for sure, everyone has their own way of doing things.
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Old 05-01-2007, 12:31 PM   #19
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Actually, everything each of you have said is true. The variable is track conditions,driving style and how the setup responds to the differing conditions.
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Old 05-01-2007, 12:59 PM   #20
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You should run the hardest & smallest size you can get away with producing the fast lap time.

Your front/rear left/right shore variances should be adjusted to even out your tires wear throughout your run to give you the most consistent handling.

In my experience even tire is generally archived by running a harder rear with a 1-way, same rear with a spool. I rarely run a front diff but when I have it has been a toss up between harder & same rear depending on track conditions.

As for your tire split you should start with whatever split give you ~ the same roll out at both ends of the car, For the chassis I run that is 2.5mm. Minor differences between front and rear roll out can be used to adjust the handling of the car to give it a more locked in or freer feel.


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Old 05-01-2007, 01:10 PM   #21
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You CAN get more side bite by going to a harder shore tire, but that is assuming that the softer tire is "rolling over" in the turns. If it isn't then I don't agree that harder tires give more side bite.

Most racers that I am experienced with usually wear rear tires a bit more than fronts but it is fairly close. That is at least part of the reason that most upper end racers try and run harder tires on the rear. Same thing with why you will see some guys running bigger tires on one side vs the other.

This next part is probably going to insult some but that is not the intention. Most of the drivers I see that run harder tires in the front are usually the less skilled drivers. It is the easiest way to get rid of traction rolling and also by making the car push it makes it easier to control. Normally the more skilled racers are trying to get their cars to steer more, keep them loose, and are running in longer mains. Keeping the car free helps it turn, but also doesn't bog the engine. There aren't that many tracks I have been on that a set of 40 shore tires will last for 60 mins. If it works for you then go for it. Running softer tires on the rear hasn't worked for me in a long time.

As I said, sometimes I do run the same shore front and rear but it is very very very rare to run harder fronts.

RMD: You asked how I decide what tires I run. In quals I run whatever gives me the fastest lap times. This most of the time finds me running softer fronts than rears. I don't care too much about tire wear. Consistant and fast lap times are more important than tire wear. For a main, handling is still important but tire wear is a factor as well. Usually for a main I will go up on the hardness front and rear. I also normally start with a larger tire This usually maintains the balance, and helps with the tire wear. This has been my findings.
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Old 05-01-2007, 01:36 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Fisher
You CAN get more side bite by going to a harder shore tire, but that is assuming that the softer tire is "rolling over" in the turns. If it isn't then I don't agree that harder tires give more side bite.

Most racers that I am experienced with usually wear rear tires a bit more than fronts but it is fairly close. That is at least part of the reason that most upper end racers try and run harder tires on the rear. Same thing with why you will see some guys running bigger tires on one side vs the other.

This next part is probably going to insult some but that is not the intention. Most of the drivers I see that run harder tires in the front are usually the less skilled drivers. It is the easiest way to get rid of traction rolling and also by making the car push it makes it easier to control. Normally the more skilled racers are trying to get their cars to steer more, keep them loose, and are running in longer mains. Keeping the car free helps it turn, but also doesn't bog the engine. There aren't that many tracks I have been on that a set of 40 shore tires will last for 60 mins. If it works for you then go for it. Running softer tires on the rear hasn't worked for me in a long time.

As I said, sometimes I do run the same shore front and rear but it is very very very rare to run harder fronts.

RMD: You asked how I decide what tires I run. In quals I run whatever gives me the fastest lap times. This most of the time finds me running softer fronts than rears. I don't care too much about tire wear. Consistant and fast lap times are more important than tire wear. For a main, handling is still important but tire wear is a factor as well. Usually for a main I will go up on the hardness front and rear. I also normally start with a larger tire This usually maintains the balance, and helps with the tire wear. This has been my findings.
Well you sound pretty right to me. Ive never tried harder rears. I just might and see, guess ill also prod around and see what others at the track are running. You sound pretty convincing and yeah guess it doesnt matter anyway you cut it , if you get your best lap times with one setup , use it. Good post.
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Old 05-01-2007, 01:40 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artificial-I
, if you get your best lap times with one setup , use it. Good post.
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Old 05-01-2007, 02:17 PM   #24
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Default Tire Selection

Couple of side notes:
Try and always run the same brand of tire week in and week out. Tire compounds and rubberr and rim vary widely between mfr's. This could result in wide variances in handling if trying to compare a 40 from one company to a 40 shore from another mfr.

I agree with Scott on running the harder rear tires. Running one step harder rears ususually evens out the wear front to back, and maintains the splits better. I have almost never worn the front tires faster than the rears. This is especially true for mains.
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Old 05-01-2007, 11:35 PM   #25
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What Scott says + 1. I believe a driver with more track time/ racing experience.
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Old 05-02-2007, 05:09 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redsand
What Scott says + 1. I believe a driver with more track time/ racing experience.
Scott is an asset to the R/C community. He has always been very helpful. I think we are all very lucky to be able to benefit from his experience and advice.
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Old 05-02-2007, 05:42 AM   #27
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Thanks again for the great info guys.
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Old 05-02-2007, 05:44 AM   #28
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i used to run softer rears and found it makes the car a lot easier to drive but doesn't produce fast laptimes.

off topic now but what about shock springs?
can the same principle of running harder rear tyres be applied to springs?
i try to run the same springs front to rear to try an make the car feel balanced.
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Old 05-02-2007, 06:33 AM   #29
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It all really depends on where your running your car. I run a lot on the street and I notice that my rears wear out a little faster than my fronts. And I could imagine on a tight circuit course that the fronts might wear faster. I think that the rears will naturally wear out faster purely because under acceleration weight transfer is putting most of the cars weight on the rear tires. That is why "rear" tires are always made a little wider than the fronts (like 30mm in the rear and 26mm up front).
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Old 05-02-2007, 07:04 AM   #30
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Most touring cars overdrive the rears...and yes weight transfer goes to the rear. Reason why its good to have an overdriven and wide rear as when it pushes backwards on the rear , it has more traction ready to go.

A lot of thought has been put into these cars. Its very nice to drive a well tuned piece of race technology.
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