R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Nitro On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12-20-2007, 04:35 PM   #391
Tech Fanatic
 
Serpentd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Evans, CO. USA
Posts: 798
Default

OK, Lets see if this works. Sorry if this doesn't work, or is too small. Let me cross my fingers quick before I press the Submit button. Ok, here goes....Lipo batteries...WOO HOO!
Attached Thumbnails
1/8th scale Motonica-img_4142.jpg   1/8th scale Motonica-img_4143.jpg  
__________________
Blessed are the SIC
Serpentd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2007, 04:58 PM   #392
Tech Regular
 
ESWLFSE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Terra Ceia, FL
Posts: 326
Trader Rating: 7 (100%+)
Send a message via Yahoo to ESWLFSE
Default

Quote:
The time and money that has gone into developing the Motonica is just plain awesome. Also reading about the background of the developers is cool as hell. These guys spent about 3 years developing the Motonica and come from a full scale onroad racing back ground with direct connections to Ferrari! Well, it's a long story, but a very cool one.
Where can I read that story???

Nice little LiPos. They do seem to fit a bit better than my Kokam 1200s.
ESWLFSE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2007, 06:49 PM   #393
Tech Master
 
garen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: GLENDALE
Posts: 1,730
Trader Rating: 7 (100%+)
Default

Guys, may I suggest something? Spend less time worrying about the battery, and more time getting the rest of the car built and setup right.
;-)
__________________
bpengines-usa.com fioroni-usa.com motonica-usa.com

Airtronics Avid RC Byron Fuels VOX Engines

VMR Tires - available at http://motonica.ipower.com/store
garen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2007, 07:21 PM   #394
Tech Regular
 
ESWLFSE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Terra Ceia, FL
Posts: 326
Trader Rating: 7 (100%+)
Send a message via Yahoo to ESWLFSE
Default

Ha ha thats probably very good advice. Unfortunately I fell in love with LiPos when I upgraded my helis so now everything has to have them - even the IGT.

My car is as setup as it can be for now. Actually, I boxed it today so I don't waste so much time staring at it when I should be packing to move.
ESWLFSE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2007, 11:14 PM   #395
Tech Fanatic
 
Serpentd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Evans, CO. USA
Posts: 798
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by garen View Post
Guys, may I suggest something? Spend less time worrying about the battery, and more time getting the rest of the car built and setup right.
;-)
Dude, HuuuuuuuuHH????? Setup??? What on earth are you talking about Garen?? You mean turn those metal things that have threads on the end or something. Well no one mentioned anything about that, well actually I sort of remember now. I guess I will do some research on this now. This car just never ceases to amaze me. It actually has a "setup" too! SWEET BRO!!! Now I am like all Stoked again.
Thanks a ton Garen. I must have missed that page in the booklet. I'll check it out bro. But if I have questions, I'll be sure to post them here. OK, welp I'm off to this "setup" thing. So will talk to you all later. Thanks again man! Later.
__________________
Blessed are the SIC
Serpentd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2007, 11:28 PM   #396
Tech Regular
 
ESWLFSE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Terra Ceia, FL
Posts: 326
Trader Rating: 7 (100%+)
Send a message via Yahoo to ESWLFSE
Default

Dude I have the setup thing with the screw-turnin' down but the shaft on my driver is bit thick when I stick it in the back so its tight and hard to get in and out. Garens Hudy driver fits better I guess.

What I need help with is the silver rings under the big balls. I have little ones and big ones in back, but all big ones in front. Not too sure about that... what you got?
ESWLFSE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2007, 04:12 AM   #397
Tech Rookie
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 17
Default

yoo motonica ppl

just got a brand new Motonica 8.0R , and i need help choosing a steering servo,

i have a ko 2363 with 8kg of torque, can u guys tell me if this is too little??

thanks
emulson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2007, 09:18 AM   #398
Tech Regular
 
ma racer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 324
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

Serpentd,
Thanks for the story. I'm gonna go for it in the back side of Jan, front of Feb. Thanks again!!
ma racer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2007, 09:31 AM   #399
Tech Master
 
garen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: GLENDALE
Posts: 1,730
Trader Rating: 7 (100%+)
Default

maracer- You might want a 13kg servo for steering.

ESWLFSE- You are refering to the roll center washers? The stock setup calls for 2mm thick washers on all the suspension arm pivot balls. If you look at both my setups posted on this thread you will fine various thickness washers used front and rear.
2mm all around will make the car very easy to drive on most tracks. If you plan on racing in Vegas, I would suggest installing 1mm washers on the rear lower arms, and 2mm everywhere else as a starting point. I think this setup will work ok for you as it will get rid of some of the understeer, but still make the car wasy to drive. As for me, I would use 1mm on both rear and upper and lower arms, 2mm on the front upper, and 3mm on the front lower. This makes the car much more aggressive.
__________________
bpengines-usa.com fioroni-usa.com motonica-usa.com

Airtronics Avid RC Byron Fuels VOX Engines

VMR Tires - available at http://motonica.ipower.com/store
garen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2007, 10:29 AM   #400
Tech Regular
 
ma racer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 324
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

not me on the steering servo. think that was emulson.
ma racer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2007, 11:39 AM   #401
Tech Master
 
garen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: GLENDALE
Posts: 1,730
Trader Rating: 7 (100%+)
Default

oops sorry...
I use Airtronics 361 for steering and 362 for throttle
__________________
bpengines-usa.com fioroni-usa.com motonica-usa.com

Airtronics Avid RC Byron Fuels VOX Engines

VMR Tires - available at http://motonica.ipower.com/store
garen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2007, 03:49 PM   #402
Tech Elite
 
YBSLOW's Avatar
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: ARIZONA
Posts: 2,368
Trader Rating: 6 (100%+)
Default Brass Cross Member

Here is the latest YBslow part for the Moto.

Brass cross member for the aluminum front bulkhead. This piece weighs 14 grams and the aluminum one it replaces weighs 2 grams. This part lowers the CG as well as moves it a bit forward for more steering. Will post a few more new parts this weekend.

Sorry the pics are terrible.

Brad
Attached Thumbnails
1/8th scale Motonica-brass-cross-member-1w.jpg   1/8th scale Motonica-brass-cross-member-2w.jpg  
__________________
YBSLOW Racing
RC Target - Capricorn
HOTRACE Tyres, Tru Source, Fantom
POWER MASTER Fuel, 2mm Designs
Protoform Bodies, Avid Bearings, AMR Engines
YBSLOW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2007, 11:13 PM   #403
Tech Regular
 
ESWLFSE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Terra Ceia, FL
Posts: 326
Trader Rating: 7 (100%+)
Send a message via Yahoo to ESWLFSE
Default

I need to see this aluminum front bulkhead.

I've been reading up on roll centers trying to better understand them since the designers of the car seemed to want to make sure that this adjustment could be a primary way to tune the cars chassis setup. I found this and it was helpful:

Quote:
A ‘theory’ about roll centres that crops up regularly is the one about high roll centres not requiring anti roll bars. Yes, a high roll axis reduces the roll couple. It is easy to raise the roll axis above the c/g causing the car to actually bank into a corner. On the surface, this sounds attractive, but by focusing on the high roll centre ‘theory’, the designer didn’t see the other side of the compromise, the jacking effect.

Any car with a roll axis above ground will have some jacking effect. As the roll axis gets higher, so the jacking forces increase. Jacking can be simply described as the effect where the car tries to ‘pole vault’ over the tyre contact patch when cornering forces are applied. An interesting aside… Ferrari design policy for many years dictated the front roll centre at ground level.

What about roll centres or roll axes below ground? The opposite of ‘jacking’ is ‘packing’ and a car with subterranean roll centres will pack down under cornering loads. This can cause the car to run out of suspension travel or even ground clearance. There have been cars with a roll axis that has the front R/C below ground and the rear R/C significantly above ground. This steeply sloped axis will cause the rear of the car to jack while the front end packs down. The result is diabolic handling.

So much for the theory! Conventional wisdom dictates an inclined roll axis, with the front roll centre lower than the rear. (Notice I used the word ‘wisdom’ here! That is no mistake). Typically these R/Cs are below 100mm above ground. And with only 50mm wheel travel, can’t move very much if designed sensibly.

The reduced roll couple at the rear leads to balanced handling and any ‘error’ in calculating the roll axis height is easily tuned out with spring rates or motion ratios. The low roll axis means that jacking forces are negligible, and can effectively be ignored.
I still would have to sketch the geometry to understand how more shim here or less there moves the roll center. It sure would be nice to have a Flash animation to illustrate this or even an excel spreadsheet or chart that showed every shim option and the resultant roll center location.


On another note I need some clarification on the practical use of carb inserts. I never used these when I used to race.
ESWLFSE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2007, 12:05 AM   #404
Tech Master
 
garen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: GLENDALE
Posts: 1,730
Trader Rating: 7 (100%+)
Default

Keep reading up, you will learn a bunch, and then realize the more you know the less you know. There are some sites out there with simple animation showing roll center and cg points and how they move as the car leans and/or the suspension compresses.
Basically here it is in a nutshell (this should be pretty accurate for our use):
Removing or reducing the number of shims on the rear lower arms will make the car rotate better (rotate quicker) in corners. Removing or reducing shims on the rear upper has a similar effect and increases camber gain as suspension compresses. Going in this direction is good for high bite tracks or tracks with lots of hairpins where you need the car to turn better. Vegas is one such track.
Adding or increasing the number of shims on the front lower arms will increase steering. Adding or increasing the number of shims on the front upper arms should increase steering from mid corner on. Reducing the number of shims on the front upper arms should increase steering entering a corner.

All the theory in the world is meaningless until you try all the adjustments on the track, take notes, and record lap times.


Carb inserts- some/most engines now have different size carb inserts. The bigger the hole, the more power and more fuel consumption. The smaller the hole, less power but better fuel mileage. Generally you want to use the biggest insert you can get away with- to make run time and/or to make the car easy to drive.
__________________
bpengines-usa.com fioroni-usa.com motonica-usa.com

Airtronics Avid RC Byron Fuels VOX Engines

VMR Tires - available at http://motonica.ipower.com/store
garen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2007, 12:16 AM   #405
Tech Regular
 
ESWLFSE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Terra Ceia, FL
Posts: 326
Trader Rating: 7 (100%+)
Send a message via Yahoo to ESWLFSE
Default

Thanks Garen! It looks like the Moto also has the option of experimenting with some anti-squat and anti-dive. Have you tried anything with that yet?

I think I can make a Moto-specific roll center spreadsheet that allows you to input the shim values (and a few more values like tire diameter and ride height) F/R and Upper/Lower, and then outputs your exact roll center.

I think I would be able to understand better how my car reacts to the changes if I had the actual roll center values that correspond with a shim change in my head.

Quote:
Carb inserts- some/most engines now have different size carb inserts. The bigger the hole, the more power and more fuel consumption. The smaller the hole, less power but better fuel mileage. Generally you want to use the biggest insert you can get away with- to make run time and/or to make the car easy to drive.
I understand that but how do you apply it? Always start with the 9 and go to the 8 if you have excessive fuel consumption?

Last edited by ESWLFSE; 12-22-2007 at 01:03 AM.
ESWLFSE is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
MOTONICA 1/8 SCALE ONROAD ITALIAN CAR ianhobbies Nitro On-Road 69 02-01-2012 01:41 PM
Wanted: Motonica P8.0R Gerner R/C Items: Wanted to Buy 0 03-19-2008 04:45 AM
Motonica P8.0R jozat R/C Items: For Sale/Trade 1 12-30-2007 08:20 PM
Motonica P8.0R jozat R/C Items: For Sale/Trade 0 12-30-2007 06:31 PM
motonica-2wd pan........... Taylorm Nitro On-Road 10 05-29-2007 05:42 AM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 02:03 AM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net