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Old 04-02-2007, 07:23 AM   #1
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Default Who cools your fuels?

In an effort to bring forth more techincal conversation in the nitro forum. Heres a question. Who keeps your fuel at the track cooled?



Products such as this have come out and state:

For better engine performance on hot days keep your fuel cool using one of our Nitro Koolers. These insulated covers fit over your fuel bottle and keeps the fuel temperate lower. The cooler you keep the fuel the less the nitro leaches through the container. This loss of nitro will decrease horsepower and performance.

As well cooler fuel should reduce the temperature of the motor and allow for a denser charge. Cooler fuel is also more compressed , so it should expand more causing for even increased compression. Another it will keep your fuel in good condition. Some fuels tend to get weird after sitting out in heat , they can turn yellowish such as Odonnels.

I keep my fuel in my pit bag and in the shade. But havent tried cooling my fuel. Who has tried this and did you notice any positive effects?
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Old 04-02-2007, 09:24 AM   #2
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i have always been told that pre heating nitro fuel makes more horse power in nitro engines , thus the reasoning of routing your fuel line around the head on the exhaust side .
as fuel gets warmer it becomes more volitile and easier to atomize .

on the other hand in gas powered full size cars cooling the fuel in a supercharged intake system actually allows more fuel to be introduced into the combustion chamber.

my feeling are those fuel cooler are more gimicky but thats just my opinion

i would love to hear more about this ....

cheers
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Old 04-02-2007, 09:48 AM   #3
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keeping the fuel cool does make sense but who among us uses fuel straight from the gallon container? Most if not all of us transfer the fuel to a smaller fuel bottle and fill the tanks from that wouldn't it make more sense to cool the refueling bottle more so then the gallon jug?

now i'm no scientist but wouldn't you cause condensation in the gallon jug by cooling it on a hot day with those ice packs? just wondering.
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Old 04-02-2007, 09:51 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitrogasm
i have always been told that pre heating nitro fuel makes more horse power in nitro engines , thus the reasoning of routing your fuel line around the head on the exhaust side .
as fuel gets warmer it becomes more volitile and easier to atomize .

on the other hand in gas powered full size cars cooling the fuel in a supercharged intake system actually allows more fuel to be introduced into the combustion chamber.

my feeling are those fuel cooler are more gimicky but thats just my opinion

i would love to hear more about this ....

cheers
Thats very interesting. It brings it closer to the explosion point. Makes sense.
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Old 04-02-2007, 09:52 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by regg151
keeping the fuel cool does make sense but who among us uses fuel straight from the gallon container? Most if not all of us transfer the fuel to a smaller fuel bottle and fill the tanks from that wouldn't it make more sense to cool the refueling bottle more so then the gallon jug?

now i'm no scientist but wouldn't you cause condensation in the gallon jug by cooling it on a hot day with those ice packs? just wondering.
Also good points. I have seen people with coolers at the track and a gallon of fuel and fuel bottle placed in there with some ice and drinks. Im thinking on doing the same so I can keep some beverages cool. But there is a 7-11 right next to where we run so im always running up there to buy stuff.
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Old 04-02-2007, 10:47 AM   #6
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Agreed on the condensation. I understand the use of insulators around the fuel jugs to keep the temperatures reasonable which will help extend the life of the fuel. Cooling it however is a complete gimick. Just think of the likelihood that by the time the fuel actually gets to the engine, that it is even still cooler than the air temp. Now think of the first three minutes of every race, warmup. WARMUP!!!! You get everything to running temp which is all about consistency. Starting an engine with cold fuel will be just like starting it on a cold day. Pain in the @$$! Once it is started then, it won't run consistenly until it is properly warmed up. Myth Busted.


Full scale cars using fuel cooling systems is practical because of the compression factor. When air (air/fuel mix) is compressed, the temp goes up along with the expansion factor. That reduces the effectiveness of the compression. Cooling the mixture allow greater effective boost with lower psi.
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Old 04-02-2007, 02:48 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gubbs3
Agreed on the condensation. I understand the use of insulators around the fuel jugs to keep the temperatures reasonable which will help extend the life of the fuel. Cooling it however is a complete gimick. Just think of the likelihood that by the time the fuel actually gets to the engine, that it is even still cooler than the air temp. Now think of the first three minutes of every race, warmup. WARMUP!!!! You get everything to running temp which is all about consistency. Starting an engine with cold fuel will be just like starting it on a cold day. Pain in the @$$! Once it is started then, it won't run consistenly until it is properly warmed up. Myth Busted.


Full scale cars using fuel cooling systems is practical because of the compression factor. When air (air/fuel mix) is compressed, the temp goes up along with the expansion factor. That reduces the effectiveness of the compression. Cooling the mixture allow greater effective boost with lower psi.
I completely agree, for our little cars, cool fuel is just a myth... if you could find a way to keep the fuel cold before it hits the engine, it would be a very small advantage, we are talking about .05 of second if you are luckly. It allows you go get more fuel into the firing camber, which Nitro has the ability to carry more O2 in it. O2 is what makes power, the fuel and oil is used to cool the firing camber, this is why it takes 3 times the amount of nitro to run a car engin as normal gas, and 2x the amount of alcohol. The reason we route the fuel line around the head is so if upside down you have more time before it flames out from lack of fuel, not to warm the fuel. Have you noticed that when you refuel, steam is coming out of the tank, and then you add in nice new cool fuel, your engine runs a little rich as first, until the fuel temp is equal to what you have been running?
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Old 04-02-2007, 05:30 PM   #8
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your engine runs richer with a full tank due to the extra "head" on the carb inlet plus the pressure line is now pressurizing an incompressible medium (fuel) vs. a compressible medium (air space), thus forcing more fuel to the carb inlet. The fuel temperature most likely has a negligible effect- it's the fuel pressure that causes the change in mixture.

Heat a bottle of fuel before you pit.... the engine will still run richer after the fill up.
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Old 04-02-2007, 05:35 PM   #9
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Looks too gimmicky for me.
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Old 04-02-2007, 07:29 PM   #10
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The only time I have chilled my fuel was when I was racing at a event where the outside temp was over 100 degrees. Since the boiling/vapor point of nitromethane is only 227 degrees, I figure it would help me out. There were too many people out there that day who's cars were running for 3:50 sec in a 5 min race. Fuel was vaporising in lines heading to hot engines. The track temp was over 155 that same day. I saw fit to chill my fuel that day only!

Nice looking bags though!! My igloo cooler does a better job...
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Old 04-02-2007, 10:53 PM   #11
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Another trinity failure......... better use for keeping children from touching the fuel bottles
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Old 04-03-2007, 01:21 AM   #12
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The higher pressure from a full tank comes from the weight of the fuel in the tank. The pressure comming from the pipe does not change. More air in the tank will only smooth out any pulsations from the pipe.

I think that the main reason for cooling the fuel is to get more fuel into the tank like getto posted. The colder the fuel gets, the less volume it takes.
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Old 04-03-2007, 06:10 AM   #13
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what flows better,hot or cold oil?.....I'm gonna pre heat my fuel next time around....
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Old 04-03-2007, 09:21 AM   #14
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Hey Harry, remember this pic? 05 Challenge
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