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Old 03-31-2003, 10:36 PM   #1
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Default take this one way and shove it! going back to the geared front diff

i plunked down the 30 bucks for a front one way on my ob4 pro - although the handling in the turns is superb (power silding is fun!)i cannot stand the braking action of the one way. even with my jr xr3i i could not make it brake effectively - add to that that every time the front wheels jumped up even the slightest bit, the car shoots off in a different direction.
i tried all sorts of suspension adjustments, much stiffer front, much stiffer rear, lower ride height front, lower ride height rear - am i missing something?

what is the forums opinion on the one way vs. gear diff - switching back to the diff i can brake like rock but now the handling in high power turns just flips the car around on it's nose - dammit...

coz i'm just not leet enuff?
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Old 03-31-2003, 10:43 PM   #2
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If you are racing with rubber tires or have a parking lot race track that is tight or rough, you will not be able to get away with a one-way. Even in perfect conditions, a one-way isn't neccessarily for everyone, as it takes a pretty smooth driving style and many guys want to use brakes too much for them to consider a one-way.

But I don't understand what you mean about your car flipping around on its nose. Could you explain more. A car with a diff in high speed corners usually pushes more than a car with a one-way.
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Old 03-31-2003, 10:46 PM   #3
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Cyber,


My experience with a front one-way is that you dont touch the brakes at all. But I run on a medium sized very fast track here in Vegas.


Next time you try it, lay your front sway bar all the down flat, and dont used any brakes at all..... just let off the gas and let the car use its momentum to turn.



just my .02
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Old 03-31-2003, 11:06 PM   #4
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yeah i pretty gathered that Nitro - i can get around pretty good using no brakes - but keez whan i have stop NOW - it just seems somewhat frustrating to see ithe car lock up and do a 180.

lazy - yep the car is driving WAY to much oversteer (i think) that is - when i enter a turn off the straight going at a good high speed and begin to execute the turn - the car will want to trun far to sharply and with only a VERY slight movement of the radio's wheel - the car just does a 180. again - i have tried every possible combo of programming with my xr3 radio - steering exponent way up, way down - steering rate way up way dn - steering epa way up way dn, etc. and every setting in between.

maybe i should put the one way back in and just teach myself that style Nitro is talking about...
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Old 03-31-2003, 11:34 PM   #5
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if other guys with a similar tire setup at your track, then a one-way would almost definitely be faster.

However, sometimes some guys just plainly use a one-way too much. If you have thick front diff fluid, you should be able to get rid of the oversteer that you are now seeing in your car now that you have put the diff in. Around 10-15k wt oil for foams and 30k wt. oil for rubber tires usually works well in the front diff.

Also, if you are braking hard coming into this corner, your rear droop settings may be too high and allowing too much weight to transfer to the front wheels. If you aren't braking hard for this turn, then I would use a one-way in your case because it simply works better.
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Old 03-31-2003, 11:37 PM   #6
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Default Re: take this one way and shove it! going back to the geared front diff

Quote:
Originally posted by cybertoolzz
i plunked down the 30 bucks for a front one way on my ob4 pro - although the handling in the turns is superb (power silding is fun!)i cannot stand the braking action of the one way. even with my jr xr3i i could not make it brake effectively - add to that that every time the front wheels jumped up even the slightest bit, the car shoots off in a different direction.
i tried all sorts of suspension adjustments, much stiffer front, much stiffer rear, lower ride height front, lower ride height rear - am i missing something?

what is the forums opinion on the one way vs. gear diff - switching back to the diff i can brake like rock but now the handling in high power turns just flips the car around on it's nose - dammit...

coz i'm just not leet enuff?
cybertoolzz, I had the same problems running one way front diff. Guess what... I'm still using it. There are tricks to using one way front diff.

1. Set your car and make the front side stiff i.e. use thicker shock silicone oil in the front than in the rear shocks. Use one grade harder springs. Use harder tires. Stiffen up the sway bar in front.

2. Limit the rear droop (say from +5 to +7 on the droop gauges) little by little so that the car will not dive to the front when you're off throttle. All of these modifications to the car settings is to avoid the weight transfer from the rear to front of the car. Most of all, it is to avoid oversteer.

3. Set the brakes so that the rear wheels do not lock up when you brake. The brakes should be set just enough to stop the car without the rear wheels locking. Add brake fade if you need.

4. Check that all your shocks and the chassis is free of tweak. Put the car on a tweakstation. Before that, set the car for the correct ride height. Press both the front and rear shocks when the car is on the tweakstation and see of the car is balanced. If say the left rear is heavier, screw in to put more spring tension on the right FRONT of the car. At the same time, loosen the same amount of tension on the left FRONT in order to maintain the same correct ride height. Do likewise for the front. Once done, check the rear droop by pressing the front side (in the center) of the car. The rear wheels will lift up somewhat to simulate what happens when the car brakes. Check the bubble balance. Adjust rear droop accordingly so that the left and right sides of the rear wheels put equal pressure at all times.

5. Change your driving style. Brake earlier and maintain speed just enough to glide around the corner for sharp hairpins. For long sweepers, the one way is excellent and you can throttle your car all the way. Of course you need to set your car up for on power steering. You do this by increasing your front droop (i.e. say from 0 to -2 on the droop gauges).

Hope that helps
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Old 04-01-2003, 04:51 PM   #7
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Default Re: Re: take this one way and shove it! going back to the geared front diff

Quote:
Originally posted by InitialD
cybertoolzz, I had the same problems running one way front diff. Guess what... I'm still using it. There are tricks to using one way front diff.

1. Set your car and make the front side stiff i.e. use thicker shock silicone oil in the front than in the rear shocks. Use one grade harder springs. Use harder tires. Stiffen up the sway bar in front.

2. Limit the rear droop (say from +5 to +7 on the droop gauges) little by little so that the car will not dive to the front when you're off throttle. All of these modifications to the car settings is to avoid the weight transfer from the rear to front of the car. Most of all, it is to avoid oversteer.

3. Set the brakes so that the rear wheels do not lock up when you brake. The brakes should be set just enough to stop the car without the rear wheels locking. Add brake fade if you need.

4. Check that all your shocks and the chassis is free of tweak. Put the car on a tweakstation. Before that, set the car for the correct ride height. Press both the front and rear shocks when the car is on the tweakstation and see of the car is balanced. If say the left rear is heavier, screw in to put more spring tension on the right FRONT of the car. At the same time, loosen the same amount of tension on the left FRONT in order to maintain the same correct ride height. Do likewise for the front. Once done, check the rear droop by pressing the front side (in the center) of the car. The rear wheels will lift up somewhat to simulate what happens when the car brakes. Check the bubble balance. Adjust rear droop accordingly so that the left and right sides of the rear wheels put equal pressure at all times.

5. Change your driving style. Brake earlier and maintain speed just enough to glide around the corner for sharp hairpins. For long sweepers, the one way is excellent and you can throttle your car all the way. Of course you need to set your car up for on power steering. You do this by increasing your front droop (i.e. say from 0 to -2 on the droop gauges).

Hope that helps
thank you very much everyone espically InitilD - thisis mucho helpful - i understand what u say here Initil and i actually have already done just about ALL what u suggest. i am sure that i am "in track" with u in how best to use the one way - i will try the one again and let u know...

thxs cybertoolzz
btw - go CRC's forums at www.teamcrc.com - lots of good stuff about STS there...
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Old 04-01-2003, 05:05 PM   #8
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Does your one way fit on a ntc3. can I have yours?
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Old 04-01-2003, 07:27 PM   #9
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sure - i'll trade u 4 new mt12
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Old 04-01-2003, 07:52 PM   #10
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Honestly, there is only one way to use a 1 way properly, and that is practice. Chassis and shock setup can only take you so far, its you as the driver that has to do the rest. If you are on a small track, a 1 way really isnt the best setup, for larger tracks where you can coast more than brake they are extremely nice to have. The post by InitialD should really help you with the chassis setup, but if I were you, I'd go to the track on a few practice days, rather than racedays where it is crouded, and get some good track time with the new setup.

Chassis tweak is also essential to having a fast car, 1 way or not. I am anal about tweak on my rides, and it has to be perfect. I found that the MIP tweak station actually set me back, and I could never get the car tweaked right on it, here is how I check for tweak.

1)Make a mark on your chassis in the exact center, on the front and rear of the car.

2)Take out all of the dogbones, and leave just the axle in the hub, put the axle pin back through, then the hex and wheel (just so there is no bind whatsoever on the axle, and it is only riding on the bearings. Do this to all 4 wheels.

3)To check the rear tweak, set a penny on either of the front tires. Lift up the front of the car on an X-Acto blade very slowly, until the tires lift off of the surface, and the pennies fall. Adjust the rear shocks until the pennies fall at the exact same time. Repeat in reverse for the front tweak.

Hopefully that will help you out a little bit, having a tweak-free car will definately help your lap times and make the car easier to drive. But practice is the only way to get used to that 1 way.
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Old 04-01-2003, 07:54 PM   #11
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Not to mension, checking your tweak like that will save you the $40-50 the MIP tweak station costs.
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Old 04-01-2003, 08:06 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by Randman
Honestly, there is only one way to use a 1 way properly, and that is practice. Chassis and shock setup can only take you so far, its you as the driver that has to do the rest. If you are on a small track, a 1 way really isnt the best setup, for larger tracks where you can coast more than brake they are extremely nice to have. The post by InitialD should really help you with the chassis setup, but if I were you, I'd go to the track on a few practice days, rather than racedays where it is crouded, and get some good track time with the new setup.

Chassis tweak is also essential to having a fast car, 1 way or not. I am anal about tweak on my rides, and it has to be perfect. I found that the MIP tweak station actually set me back, and I could never get the car tweaked right on it, here is how I check for tweak.

1)Make a mark on your chassis in the exact center, on the front and rear of the car.

2)Take out all of the dogbones, and leave just the axle in the hub, put the axle pin back through, then the hex and wheel (just so there is no bind whatsoever on the axle, and it is only riding on the bearings. Do this to all 4 wheels.

3)To check the rear tweak, set a penny on either of the front tires. Lift up the front of the car on an X-Acto blade very slowly, until the tires lift off of the surface, and the pennies fall. Adjust the rear shocks until the pennies fall at the exact same time. Repeat in reverse for the front tweak.

Hopefully that will help you out a little bit, having a tweak-free car will definately help your lap times and make the car easier to drive. But practice is the only way to get used to that 1 way.
thx 4 the reply

interesting tweak method there. "set a penny on either of the front tires" - do u mean a single penny on the TOP of ONE of the tires on the front - so the penny is lying on the top of the foam/rubber tire? which direction do u expect it will fall? will it roll forward/backward or fall off to one side? i think i get ur drift but can u be a bit more specfic on ur method - im not as leet as u...
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Old 04-02-2003, 01:43 AM   #13
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You will not be checking car tweak with this method. By lifting the front you will be checking rear tweak _and_ front droop, by lifting the rear you will be checking front tweak _and_ rear droop. When for example both front droop and rear tweak are off the same amount, you can miss it. So this method requires your droop settings to be perfect as well, then it works OK.
The only way to check tweak at ride height is a tweak board or corner scales.
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Old 04-02-2003, 04:59 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by cybertoolzz
the car will want to trun far to sharply and with only a VERY slight movement of the radio's wheel - the car just does a 180.
you've got the following problems (sorry if i repeat anyone i didn't read the entire post replies from everyone);

-tire combination front and rear is wrong. go with harder fronts, or if you can't afford the right tires try stiffening the front sway bars, springs. but remember 90% of handling will come from the right tires!!!! get the right ones
-you also have possibly tweek in your car (shock lengths not the same, droop not the same, chasis tweeked, something bent, binding etc).

-way to much brake on your radio. tone the brakes down remember you don't need so much, you are not driving a front diff.

you can use brakes with a oneway,

you just have to know how to use it! braking is done much later with a oneway and used only to make the car turn into the corner. ie steer into the corner and just before hitting the apex, or when your about 2.5 3 car lengths from the apex tap the brake. (you will notice you are doing it right becouse the car steers into the corner better) this technique works perfect on ANY TRACK.

even better on small tracks. it's a phalacy when people say you can't use brakes with a oneway. i always use them to make the car enter the apex sharper and at higher speeds.

practice first by coasting into a corner then when you get the right lines start using the brakes, once you know how to do it it will allow you to stay on the power for longer when entering a corner
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Old 04-02-2003, 11:45 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by VenomWorldOrder
you just have to know how to use it! braking is done much later with a oneway and used only to make the car turn into the corner. ie steer into the corner and just before hitting the apex, or when your about 2.5 3 car lengths from the apex tap the brake. (you will notice you are doing it right becouse the car steers into the corner better) this technique works perfect on ANY TRACK.
I too do that some of the times... I actually came across the method above by mistake. Do you just tap the brakes and then turn or do you press the brakes and turn at the same time?

When I brake and turn at the same time, the entering speed of the car is tremendous especially if it's a hairpin corner after a long straight. Very sharp and deadly manouvre. Pretty hard on the tires too... It needs a lot of practising to execute it perfectly.

I personally find that driving with one way front diff can be difficult especially in the middle of the corners. Most cars slow down but your car can coast at a higher speed. Accidents can happen especially the fact that you do not have powerful brakes to stop in time when another car is directly in front of your driving line.
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