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Old 03-24-2007, 05:27 AM   #46
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good info AFM
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Old 03-24-2007, 06:38 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by RC=Realy_Costly
howdy guys

on the raceday hobbies website, are the kf tyres' prices in australian$ ????
they are US prices, i wish we in OZ can get them for $8.95 a pair, lol.
but they are great prices, and the product is good, i think thats what matters in the long run.
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Old 03-24-2007, 09:22 AM   #48
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Last edited by STICKS; 03-24-2007 at 09:42 AM.
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Old 03-24-2007, 12:22 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by TomB
trust me man, this is the perfect example of not only a psychological assumption by the user that there is an improvement (ie user expectancy bias) but also possibly an example of a placebo effect (if someone had the time to conduct a double blind test ) and also essentially of misrepresented information, look at the "durability graph" listed here and you notice there is no values on the Y column, so essentially they show you that the k factory tyre has "more" durability, ok sure, great but how much? how do we not know the Y coloumn is in graduations of say 0.0002 markings or somethign, so essentially a very small difference can be made out to look huge!?

all i'm doing is pointing out the stupid marketing tricks manufacturers use, albiet i'm doing it for the heck of it (so i can place into practice the things i am learning in research methods ) but never the less it's still is true.

also i think you'd also find an element of "placebo effect" in a tyre test. if you told someone "here try these great new grippy foamies" people would invariably drive harder, or at least subconciously try to drive well due to the confidence you instilled into them in telling them the tyres were great. ie tell someone;
"ay look i have these real shythouse tyres which are slippery, tell me what you recon" and they will most probably report back that they are shyt.

anyway, yeah i know, im picking on kfactory...sorry guys, but there isn't a law against being smart enough to figure out bogus/or exagurated claims.
Unfortuantely this is again incorrect................. if you had studied as I have done the practices and theories concerned with placebo and proving such is the case then you would see.
Comparing tire to like tire is not placebo...........nor can anyway you flour it or interprete it be made into placebo.
Now.......if you compared the tire to an imitation, say a tire made of black vinyl without the user knowing either, then this could be used in a placebo analysis. ( a double blind format)

This is not to say that some drivers would, if told, drive differently after being told that the tires they are using are slippy.
But any driver of even mediocre experience would, in short order, realize the tires have more grip than he/she was initially told they had.
You drive to the grip of the tires, what should be discussed is how one set of tires can be compared to another, either of a different brand or even the same but say cut to a different size even. There, is a comparison to be made. It is NOT placebo my friend.....so no. I don't trust you...lol

K Factory tires have proven to be durable and grippy. They use high class, durable and consistant quality rubber in their foam. The wheel rims, as has been stated are very important and again, with the little flex K Factory have in their rims, they make traction consistant from track to track and do not have to be run on any one particular track.
The diminished offset which allows the wheel hub to be deeper in the wheel gives the suspension more leverage which will make a particular set-up slightly
(very slightly!) softer.
Or the track of the car will be slightly shorter whichever the driver wishes.
I'm short on time and wanted to explain this more with using the K Factory tires but it will have to be another day now.

Just to say, with K Factory Tires. It shows there has been another jump foreward in tire use and manufacture which will only help us and ultimately be copied by others.

I liike them. Just incase you weren't sure...........lol

Regards to All, and no hard feelings!

Menace
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Old 03-25-2007, 04:15 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by British Menace
Unfortuantely this is again incorrect................. if you had studied as I have done the practices and theories concerned with placebo and proving such is the case then you would see.
Comparing tire to like tire is not placebo
yeah you are right, i used the word placebo in the last post in the wrong context. i was meaning to say "Baseline" the tyre k factory are comparing against is the baseline. I still think tough for many users who use the tyre at their local track though them noticing a difference is just a placebo effect/ or at most expectancy bias.

it is debatable though about the placebo effect, lol. if i gave you a tire that had no added advantage over another, and said here is a new tyres that we have been testing, or i said "here is a new grippy tyre" aren't you creating a expectancy bias, so in effect, possibly also seeing an element of placebo effect? if there was no added advantage to the tyre and you stated to the user that there was, are you not essentially creating a situationt hat can lead to a placebo?

taken from: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/placebo%20effect
"The beneficial effect in a patient following a particular treatment that arises from the patient's expectations concerning the treatment rather than from the treatment itself".

or re worded in an RC example:
"The beneficial effect assumed by a racer after using k factory tyres and the effects that arises from the racers expectations concerning the tyres rather than from the tyre itself".

ie you expect a difference hence, create a differenecethrough your own effort (ie better laptimes due to increased confidence, focus etc) but not due to the tyres itself. you falsly assume it's the tyres when infact it may be your increased attention whilst driving. laptimes may improve but not neccessarily due to the tyre (as explained above, ie focus, confidence etc)


lol anyway, i'm enjoying the brain excercise, but im sure others are thinking "shut up!" sorry....maybe this should go in the chit chat section
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Old 03-25-2007, 05:06 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomB
yeah you are right, i used the word placebo in the last post in the wrong context. i was meaning to say "Baseline" the tyre k factory are comparing against is the baseline. I still think tough for many users who use the tyre at their local track though them noticing a difference is just a placebo effect/ or at most expectancy bias.

it is debatable though about the placebo effect, lol. if i gave you a tire that had no added advantage over another, and said here is a new tyres that we have been testing, or i said "here is a new grippy tyre" aren't you creating a expectancy bias, so in effect, possibly also seeing an element of placebo effect? if there was no added advantage to the tyre and you stated to the user that there was, are you not essentially creating a situationt hat can lead to a placebo?

taken from: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/placebo%20effect
"The beneficial effect in a patient following a particular treatment that arises from the patient's expectations concerning the treatment rather than from the treatment itself".

or re worded in an RC example:
"The beneficial effect assumed by a racer after using k factory tyres and the effects that arises from the racers expectations concerning the tyres rather than from the tyre itself".

ie you expect a difference hence, create a differenecethrough your own effort (ie better laptimes due to increased confidence, focus etc) but not due to the tyres itself. you falsly assume it's the tyres when infact it may be your increased attention whilst driving. laptimes may improve but not neccessarily due to the tyre (as explained above, ie focus, confidence etc)


lol anyway, i'm enjoying the brain excercise, but im sure others are thinking "shut up!" sorry....maybe this should go in the chit chat section
i know it seems like your enjoying this as a brain stimulation excercise. but can i ask a question ?
Have you tried the K Factory tires ?
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Old 03-26-2007, 03:32 AM   #52
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Hey Patto,

How have you been?
Have you been able to try the tires on a high grip track yet?

I have only been able to use them while breaking in motors at the mo' and on low to med grip tracks?!

Interested to know what you think.

Menace
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Old 03-26-2007, 04:34 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by British Menace
Hey Patto,

How have you been?
Have you been able to try the tires on a high grip track yet?

I have only been able to use them while breaking in motors at the mo' and on low to med grip tracks?!

Interested to know what you think.

Menace
not high grip track yet. our tracks arent prepped. med/low traction
i have found the 38's all round to be great grip, but lost steering.
so i have gone 38 fronts and 40 rears. seems to be good comprimise, and regain some steering again.
i like the tires heaps. no reason why and i dont want to start anything in the way i think but i just like them. plus we have to run them
for certain reasons. i must say a big thanks to Sam at racedays
so i get the new IDM this week as well. are these the motors you have been running in ?
talk soon Menace.
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Old 03-26-2007, 05:20 PM   #54
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Wow these brain excercises are tough on us Italian boys!!!

I can say, and not even in a bais manner, that I like the K Factory tires. I can use and sell any tire I wish. I like to offer products that I use and feel to me they will be good for my customers in regards to wear, less chunking, performance, and always fresh tires at good pricing for my customers. K Factory offers these advantages to racers.

There is always a choice and many in this category. But not many can offer the frshness when they are received by my customers as are the GQ tires we also use and offer to our customers.

I am not sure if it was decided that after the package was open a certain amount of time the gases or freshness of the tires is lost. Didn't follow that one, but in either case I like opening the package and feel a soft fresh rubber tire rather then a hard rubber in an open box with cobb webs. Hey I got some tires like that from a company that wanted me to sell their tires!!!

In any case, I believe the K Factory brand has brought to the forefront an excellent choice in a tire for a newbie ( or an older Italian guy like me ) to test the durability of the rims, or a pro to test the performance base on the way he drives, what he drives and what he feels comfortable using. If it all fits then it is beautiful.

I leaving now to purchase more brain power so I can understand all that has been written above!!!! lol
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Old 03-26-2007, 05:50 PM   #55
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Tires work great for me this weekend at the Airtronics Race plenty of grip no issues.
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Old 03-26-2007, 05:57 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivan Dickson
Tires work great for me this weekend at the Airtronics Race plenty of grip no issues.
Ivan, it was nice to meet you this weekend and thanks again for the help in the pits.

BTW you had a good run going in the main...except for a bit of bad luck

John Christensen
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Old 03-26-2007, 06:03 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madjack
Ivan, it was nice to meet you this weekend and thanks again for the help in the pits.

BTW you had a good run going in the main...except for a bit of bad luck

John Christensen
Thanks John hope to see again in the near future maybe at crystal park now I know who you are madjack.
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Old 03-29-2007, 11:08 AM   #58
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Old 03-29-2007, 09:56 PM   #59
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Mark just got a set of the K Factory foams from Raceday, mine should be here tomorrow, they look great. The only question we have is how well the rim holds up. The rims are pretty thin and fairly soft. Weather permitting we will give them a try this Sunday.
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Old 03-30-2007, 02:39 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by jtveten
Mark just got a set of the K Factory foams from Raceday, mine should be here tomorrow, they look great. The only question we have is how well the rim holds up. The rims are pretty thin and fairly soft. Weather permitting we will give them a try this Sunday.
I smacked the wall pretty good and they didn't wobble or show any signs of breakage when I checked.
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