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Old 03-21-2007, 10:24 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by TomB
its funny how manufacturers always say "better wear than X brand" or "20% less wear"

i'd like to know what they are using as a baseline comparison for these figures. seems like every manufacturers tyres are X% better wear than the competition.

guys, it's just another foam tyre brand, lol. unless they have figured out a new recipe for a high denisty, high side bite/forward bite foam, it's the same as the rest.

there is only 3 types of foam currently for tyres;

-japanese foam (high rubber content) kawahara, ATS, Active, speedmind etc
-american foam (traditional foam low rubber content, suited better fro carpet)Jaco
-european foam (a moist dense foam which tends to be heavier than the other two types) ie gandinni

the K factory foam is most prob Euro or Jap.
What's the point?
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Old 03-22-2007, 05:24 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Ivan Dickson
What's the point?
geez, dude i spelt it out pritty simply for you. I explained my point.

essentially Foam tyre companies compare a tyre against a baseline tyre which they know has poor performance, and then report "20% better..." this or that, when infact it's really only better when compared to an inferior, or less capable example.

if you compared a K factory to a Gandinni or an ATS etc and did a double blind test you'd probably find that the differences, and ability to tell the difference between these tyres is almost impossible, no matter who the driver is, and a pro driver would possibly only tell the difference between the different foam types (ie american foam, jap foam and euro foam). If you had a pro driver tell you the difference between a range of say for example, euro type foam compound foams i doubt they would notice the difference.

Considering we are not pro drivers the chances of noticing no difference increases dramatically. (Remember i said "double blind test" of course you will "notice" the difference yourself if you are physically changing the tyres on your car and you see what you are putting on the car, but essentially the "difference" you notice is psychological not a reality).

my point?! The claims K factory and for that fact, almost al ofther foam manufacturers make of "X% more grip", "X% better wear" are essentially a false proposition because it's being compared to something inferior.

for an extreme example, imagine this: of course a wooden wheel will have 90% less grip than a foam tyre, but why make this comparison?

so why say k factory or GRP or whatever has X% more grip compared to a Jaco, when we all know a Jaco (american foam) isn't as well suited to nitro sedan hot weather Asphalt racing? Compare red apples with red apples guys not green apples with red. THAT'S MY POINT!

...yeah i know long rant, but it's just stupid when manufaturers make these dumb claims.
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Old 03-22-2007, 05:44 AM   #18
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i understand what your saying
anoher psychological example is a placebo.

example: if you asked someone to change your tyres to a different brand but they left the same wheels on your car and you didn't know that, you would feel a difference because you think they have been changed.

if tyre X is 20% better than tyre Y, but tyre Z is better than both X and Y. manufacturers don't say that their tyre X is xyz% worse than tyre Z do they?

this isn't only specific to tyre manufacturers. 1:1 car manufacturers do this. when was the last time you saw an ad on television saying that household cleaning product X cleans more effectively than OTHER regular cleaning products?

long rant but in the end it is true
my $0.02
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Old 03-22-2007, 06:31 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by twiggy
i understand what your saying
anoher psychological example is a placebo.

example: if you asked someone to change your tyres to a different brand but they left the same wheels on your car and you didn't know that, you would feel a difference because you think they have been changed.

if tyre X is 20% better than tyre Y, but tyre Z is better than both X and Y. manufacturers don't say that their tyre X is xyz% worse than tyre Z do they?

this isn't only specific to tyre manufacturers. 1:1 car manufacturers do this. when was the last time you saw an ad on television saying that household cleaning product X cleans more effectively than OTHER regular cleaning products?

long rant but in the end it is true
my $0.02
exactly twiggy! and did you know that when a placebo/real drug test is done in 20% of the cases the placebo recipients actually improve in their helath 20% of the time! even though the placebo had no effective ingredients. The power of the mind is far out man.
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Old 03-22-2007, 07:02 AM   #20
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i have run K Factory tires most of this season, i will say i am very happy with them. at the same time it is a different setup needed for these tires. i had switched from Kawaharas 0 offset rims. a tires brand change takes time to adjust and find a setup that works for them. so i had to start again with setup, and shore choices. i know that these KFactory tires are slightly narrower offset than Kawaharas. so by saying that, there will be a gain from that switch, if you adjust the rear track width back out to 200mm. if you leave the front as is, then infact you change your front track width by 1.5mm narrower. this will give the car more rotation and steering, just by the change of a tire brand. so i do think this is why most guys are noticing a difference when they change to the KFactory tires.
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Old 03-22-2007, 07:08 AM   #21
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TomB- you should quit while you're behind. I agree with you that in a double-blind test that it would be difficult to distinguish between brands. However, you are COMPLETELY off base on your evaluation of the "types" of foam and who uses what. EVERYONE uses Japanese foam. JACO uses it. GRP uses it. The Japanese use it. The only American foam used anymore is green rubber and that is hardly ever used. All the carpet foam we use is Japanese. As I've said before, everyone uses the same foam.
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Old 03-22-2007, 09:19 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pattojnr
i have run K Factory tires most of this season, i will say i am very happy with them. at the same time it is a different setup needed for these tires. i had switched from Kawaharas 0 offset rims. a tires brand change takes time to adjust and find a setup that works for them. so i had to start again with setup, and shore choices. i know that these KFactory tires are slightly narrower offset than Kawaharas. so by saying that, there will be a gain from that switch, if you adjust the rear track width back out to 200mm. if you leave the front as is, then infact you change your front track width by 1.5mm narrower. this will give the car more rotation and steering, just by the change of a tire brand. so i do think this is why most guys are noticing a difference when they change to the KFactory tires.
Well put Patto.......and exactly so.
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Old 03-22-2007, 09:37 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomB
geez, dude i spelt it out pritty simply for you. I explained my point.

essentially Foam tyre companies compare a tyre against a baseline tyre which they know has poor performance, and then report "20% better..." this or that, when infact it's really only better when compared to an inferior, or less capable example.

if you compared a K factory to a Gandinni or an ATS etc and did a double blind test you'd probably find that the differences, and ability to tell the difference between these tyres is almost impossible, no matter who the driver is, and a pro driver would possibly only tell the difference between the different foam types (ie american foam, jap foam and euro foam). If you had a pro driver tell you the difference between a range of say for example, euro type foam compound foams i doubt they would notice the difference.


Considering we are not pro drivers the chances of noticing no difference increases dramatically. (Remember i said "double blind test" of course you will "notice" the difference yourself if you are physically changing the tyres on your car and you see what you are putting on the car, but essentially the "difference" you notice is psychological not a reality).

my point?! The claims K factory and for that fact, almost al ofther foam manufacturers make of "X% more grip", "X% better wear" are essentially a false proposition because it's being compared to something inferior.

for an extreme example, imagine this: of course a wooden wheel will have 90% less grip than a foam tyre, but why make this comparison?

so why say k factory or GRP or whatever has X% more grip compared to a Jaco, when we all know a Jaco (american foam) isn't as well suited to nitro sedan hot weather Asphalt racing? Compare red apples with red apples guys not green apples with red. THAT'S MY POINT!

...yeah i know long rant, but it's just stupid when manufaturers make these dumb claims.

Hmmmmm. Not sure about this.......
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Old 03-22-2007, 10:20 AM   #24
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The rim is very durable.
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Old 03-22-2007, 02:25 PM   #25
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I can tell the difference between major brand tires that aren't repackaged from the same MFG......whether you attribute that to rim size and/or flex,variances in the compound or shore,or little green men from mars,suit yourself....
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Old 03-22-2007, 08:45 PM   #26
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I can tell the difference between major brand tires that aren't repackaged from the same MFG......whether you attribute that to rim size and/or flex,variances in the compound or shore,or little green men from mars,suit yourself....
Exactly what my point was. I notice that these tires, when running 40 shore are more grippy than my usual Jaco 40 shore tires. Nobody can tell me it's all in my head when I am paying close attention to how my car is doing. My other point is, at the prices for these it's a superior buy IMO.
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Old 03-22-2007, 09:41 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Dredd
Exactly what my point was. I notice that these tires, when running 40 shore are more grippy than my usual Jaco 40 shore tires. Nobody can tell me it's all in my head when I am paying close attention to how my car is doing. My other point is, at the prices for these it's a superior buy IMO.
Tom B is in that drug/placebo test for suggesting such a thing.....
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Old 03-23-2007, 01:52 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Dredd
Exactly what my point was. I notice that these tires, when running 40 shore are more grippy than my usual Jaco 40 shore tires. Nobody can tell me it's all in my head when I am paying close attention to how my car is doing. My other point is, at the prices for these it's a superior buy IMO.

you have more grip due to the fact the track width is narrower. when you make the track width narrower the car becomes more responsive, less slide, more grip. (this is according to my xray setup book for the T2. Yes i know it's electric, but the physics/geometry principles are the same).

my arguments that are placed forward are totally coherent, so no need to name call and say i'm wrong just cuz i'm being "devils advocate" i know i am right on this one. Sure the tyres are good, i'm just saying they are no more spectacular than any other foam on the market, and rim design/thickness of rim also plays a huge part int he way it grips/reacts/responds to directional changes/wear rates etc.
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Old 03-23-2007, 02:58 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomB
you have more grip due to the fact the track width is narrower. when you make the track width narrower the car becomes more responsive, less slide, more grip. (this is according to my xray setup book for the T2. Yes i know it's electric, but the physics/geometry principles are the same).

my arguments that are placed forward are totally coherent, so no need to name call and say i'm wrong just cuz i'm being "devils advocate" i know i am right on this one. Sure the tyres are good, i'm just saying they are no more spectacular than any other foam on the market, and rim design/thickness of rim also plays a huge part int he way it grips/reacts/responds to directional changes/wear rates etc.
I's your idea's on the Placebo effect which is incorrect......................
In respect of your argument concerning tires and if you would notice anything.

You are right in saying you are quite coherent in what you are saying................... just incorrect in your corolation between tire use and the placebo effect you pointed out earlier.

You have good points TomB.
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Old 03-23-2007, 08:48 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by nitro_racer23
QUICK RELEASE G4 HUBS
Will these work on a RRR car? Just asking if anyone has tried this.
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