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Old 03-14-2003, 11:47 PM   #1
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Default Novarossi .12 5port - break-in

Just bought this engine for my ntc3. The manual does not give you a clear instruction on how to break-in the engine. Is there a website I can go to, their website www.novarossi.it is also vauge in providing break-in instructions. Any who have used this engine? You suggestion will be very much appreciated. Thanks.
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Old 03-15-2003, 12:11 AM   #2
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Broke-in several engines and found a very good method of break-in, is a variation of the method that Novarossi put on their website.

1. Don't touch the needles of the carb, let them as come from stock.
2. Fire your engine and when stationary after 10 seconds, start to open gas with the throttle (or with your finger) and on the other hand, start to open the main needle (those screw almost vertical on your carb).
Open it (unscrew) about 2.5 or 3 turns (all engines are different, probably you need to open more). Until the sound of the engine isn't clear, blurbs and changes their sound to a more similar four-stroke engine (this is called fourstroking).
Make two tanks like this letting cool to ambient temp between them (engine shouldn't be quite hot, you can touch without problems the head of the engine and see it is barely warm). By the exhaust a lot of oil (and some smoke) should go, this is a sign of a overly rich condition and lots of oil and fuel is coming through to wash the engine and cool them during those critical phase.
3. Stationary break-in has ended. Next tanks should be done on the car with very rich adjustment of the main needle. Probably you might need to close your main needle about 3/4 turn or less to get moving the car if this don't moves. Warning: car shouldn't shift into second and not having a clean acceleration, should blurb and do the 'fourstroking' sound. Do this tank on this condition, avoiding high rpm prolonged periods. After this tank you're almost on the half of the break-in.
4. Having let cool, start them and with the help of a buddy, meanwhile you're driving close an 1/8 of a turn. Do like 4 or 5 laps then your buddy should start to close the main needle 1/16 of a turn each time you pit (do 4 or 5 laps, pit to close 1/16, do another 4 or 5 laps and pit another time for a 1/16 close).
With the help of a quality temp gun, continue leaning during the next three tanks and watch for a maximum temperature of 185 - 195F if you reached this temp, stop leaning and do one tank (large trails of smoke should come from the exhaust). When you end the tank, engine starts to be ready for running it at higher temps and leaner.

Important: let the engine cool during 4 or 5 minutes before starting another time and each time the engine is stopped make sure that the piston isn't on the TDC or near, when sleeve cools it traps the piston and can damage it, move the crank with your fingers and let where you don't feel the piston sticking.
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Old 03-15-2003, 01:04 AM   #3
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i dont understand step two

just clear this up and i understand

when u open the main needle up 3 turns and finish that tank and do it once more should u put it back to the original settings or leave it where it is and go another 3 turns for the next tank?
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Old 03-15-2003, 01:10 AM   #4
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Default Explanation of step 2.

2. Fire your engine and when stationary after 10 seconds, start to open gas with the throttle (or with your finger) and on the other hand, start to open the main needle (those screw almost vertical on your carb).
Open it (unscrew) about 2.5 or 3 turns (all engines are different, probably you need to open more). Until the sound of the engine isn't clear, blurbs and changes their sound to a more similar four-stroke engine (this is called fourstroking).
Make two tanks like this letting cool to ambient temp between them (engine shouldn't be quite hot, you can touch without problems the head of the engine and see it is barely warm). By the exhaust a lot of oil (and some smoke) should go, this is a sign of a overly rich condition and lots of oil and fuel is coming through to wash the engine and cool them during those critical phase.


In other words:

Start your engine and let on idle speed 10 seconds, after this time start to opening throttle (the method is up to you: via trottle channel or directly pulling the carb linkage). At the same time you're pulling the trottle, start to richening the carburetor unscrewing the main needle 3 turns.

Let the main needle with the 3 turns unscrewed and do all the tank. Let cool and without touching another time time the main needle, do another tank. After this, you can go to the track to continue with the break-in as described.
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Old 03-15-2003, 01:23 AM   #5
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I prefer not to run my engine overly rich when I break-in engines because I usually end up with an engine that has an inconsistent idle, and seems to run rich throughout the rpm range, even when it has lean needle settings.

Also I never do stationary break-in any more.

I basically turn the high end needle 1/16 of a turn out and run slowly around the track before anyone gets out there. I try to keep things just below minimum-normal operating temperature. So that is around 200-220. I run 2-3 laps at first, heat cycle, then slowly build up to something like 6-7 laps by the tenth heat cycle. Basically, I am tuning the whole time to be only slightly rich. This can be a little difficult since you are not really wringing it out, so it can be a little harder to tell how to tune your engine. Basically, I just build up, going longer, faster with a temperature equal or slightly hotter than the last heat cycle. By the 8th-10th heat cycles, I could pretty much be racing, but I would be a tad rich.

I don't have any proof that this provides a faster engine, because every engine is different, just like every day, and every gallon of fuel etc.... but it does make tuning easier, and my engines don't need as much time to warm up properly. "To win, you must first finish", and mainly for that reason I break-in my engines in this fashion.

That is just my way, but be wary if you aren't very used to tuning engines, it could be trickier than the more conventional method.
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Old 03-17-2003, 02:18 AM   #6
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Default break in

i usually heat cycle 3 min. intervals for one tank. make sure it has time to cool down in between. then i idle for 3 full tanks, during idle the temp is 180ballpark,i dont believe in a cold brake-in because the sleeve is not getting hot enough to expand and contract. then i run rich for 4 tanks,after that i start to tune for performance.
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Old 03-18-2003, 12:21 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by Corse-R
Broke-in several engines and found a very good method of break-in, is a variation of the method that Novarossi put on their website.

1. Don't touch the needles of the carb, let them as come from stock.
2. Fire your engine and when stationary after 10 seconds, start to open gas with the throttle (or with your finger) and on the other hand, start to open the main needle (those screw almost vertical on your carb).
Open it (unscrew) about 2.5 or 3 turns (all engines are different, probably you need to open more). Until the sound of the engine isn't clear, blurbs and changes their sound to a more similar four-stroke engine (this is called fourstroking).
Make two tanks like this letting cool to ambient temp between them (engine shouldn't be quite hot, you can touch without problems the head of the engine and see it is barely warm). By the exhaust a lot of oil (and some smoke) should go, this is a sign of a overly rich condition and lots of oil and fuel is coming through to wash the engine and cool them during those critical phase.
3. Stationary break-in has ended. Next tanks should be done on the car with very rich adjustment of the main needle. Probably you might need to close your main needle about 3/4 turn or less to get moving the car if this don't moves. Warning: car shouldn't shift into second and not having a clean acceleration, should blurb and do the 'fourstroking' sound. Do this tank on this condition, avoiding high rpm prolonged periods. After this tank you're almost on the half of the break-in.
4. Having let cool, start them and with the help of a buddy, meanwhile you're driving close an 1/8 of a turn. Do like 4 or 5 laps then your buddy should start to close the main needle 1/16 of a turn each time you pit (do 4 or 5 laps, pit to close 1/16, do another 4 or 5 laps and pit another time for a 1/16 close).
With the help of a quality temp gun, continue leaning during the next three tanks and watch for a maximum temperature of 185 - 195F if you reached this temp, stop leaning and do one tank (large trails of smoke should come from the exhaust). When you end the tank, engine starts to be ready for running it at higher temps and leaner.

Important: let the engine cool during 4 or 5 minutes before starting another time and each time the engine is stopped make sure that the piston isn't on the TDC or near, when sleeve cools it traps the piston and can damage it, move the crank with your fingers and let where you don't feel the piston sticking.
Corse-R,
Thank you for taking time to give me a step by step procedure. I really appreciate the effort. The main needle is the high speed needle right? What about the low speed needle? What would be the initial setting? What are the turns that I will make when
breaking in? Looking forward your reply.
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Old 03-18-2003, 12:46 AM   #8
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Default break in

main needle 5turns out bottom end 2and a half out. dont touch mid range needle. its set a the factory never touch it
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Old 03-18-2003, 01:19 AM   #9
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Default Re: break in

Quote:
Originally posted by integ32
main needle 5turns out bottom end 2and a half out. dont touch mid range needle. its set a the factory never touch it
Integ32:

All the carbs that go out from the Nova factory are individually flowed and depending their flow can go with one or other adjustment. Best thing to do is to take individual note of where go each needle before making any adjustments.
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Old 03-18-2003, 01:23 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by thefuzzclub
Corse-R,
Thank you for taking time to give me a step by step procedure. I really appreciate the effort. The main needle is the high speed needle right? What about the low speed needle? What would be the initial setting? What are the turns that I will make when breaking in? Looking forward your reply.
I said on the previous reply, but open about 3 turns the main (high speed needle). You don't need to touch the low-end needle nor the idle adjustment.

Each carb is individually flowed at the factory, so the adjustment for one carb is slightly different for each other. Best thing to do is to take note of the turns that each carb goes (main and low). Mid range needle (which is in fact bad named, is only an adjustment to modify the place of the main jet of the carb, displacing on the venturi, let flush to the body of carburetor, you can hurt more than get any advance from it if you don't have how to adjust).
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Old 03-18-2003, 02:30 AM   #11
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Corse-R,
Thanks for the reply once again. Now I have a better understanding on how I'm going to break-in the engine. Just one last question, one fast racer here in our track said that if you break-in the nova engine you should break it lean so you can race tune it and get its peak performance. I think its untrue because most of the basic break in procedures I read said that break in should always be rich. But is there such thing as break in lean? Thanks for your patience.
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Old 03-18-2003, 02:43 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by thefuzzclub
Corse-R,
Thanks for the reply once again. Now I have a better understanding on how I'm going to break-in the engine. Just one last question, one fast racer here in our track said that if you break-in the nova engine you should break it lean so you can race tune it and get its peak performance. I think its untrue because most of the basic break in procedures I read said that break in should always be rich. But is there such thing as break in lean? Thanks for your patience.
I wouldn't run a brand new engine lean without break-in b/c many parts are quite tight and needs to match each others. Running-in as rich as we run during break-in serves two purposes: cooling and washing the internals of the engines.

During their seating rotating and moving parts can lose particles and other stuff, that needs to go out of the engine. Why? flooding them.

Another: When you tune your engine do it taking attenting how it sounds, temperature readings are informative b/c all engines are different. Temps I gave you are a ballpark when break-in. On race conditions, depending the plug, fuel, pipe and carb. adjustments can be a huge disparity between your readings and others engines readings and use ever the same temp probe.
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Old 03-18-2003, 07:06 AM   #13
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Always hear many people say about the Mid Range needle, when you don't know how to tune it, don't touch it.

Then, how will you guy consider a person to know how to tune it? I'd like to learn how to tune this as well.
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Old 03-18-2003, 07:42 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by albertlam
Always hear many people say about the Mid Range needle, when you don't know how to tune it, don't touch it.

Then, how will you guy consider a person to know how to tune it? I'd like to learn how to tune this as well.
I repeat it, for those who haven't noticed:The brass screw located at the other side of the low-end needle isn't a needle. Varies the position of the fuel jet on the intake venturi.

The main reason of this adjustment of the jet is move the point where the low-end needle actues and where not and the fuel flow is dictated by the high speed needle. This is the most plausible explication that I find for this bad called mid-end needle.

For starting to adjust the position of the Jet, you've to get a steady hand doing carb adjustments. I don't feel comfortable touching it (like many others)... best bet is leave as is and play only with the high and low-end needles. You'll probably get a 97% of your carburation playing only with those needles and ignoring the third screw.
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Old 03-18-2003, 09:17 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by albertlam
Always hear many people say about the Mid Range needle, when you don't know how to tune it, don't touch it.

Then, how will you guy consider a person to know how to tune it? I'd like to learn how to tune this as well.
Albert, this is what engine guru Dennis Ritchey (aka Motorman) said about the mid range needle (snipped to include specific relevant information only);

Here is how to check the low end. Once it is fully warm and the high is adjusted do the 5 second Idle punch test. If you punch the throttle and there is no immediate smoke and I mean immediate the low is to lean. If it goes five feet and begins to smoke the midrange is taking over so don't let this fool you. Once you get that immediate wisp of smoke from the low end on a punch test then you can begin to progressively lean the midrange up to a full turn and watch the performance from the five foot mark on. You will see it change.

Another one from RB Products website forum;

Low end needle controls acceleration from still to 5 feet out.
Mid needle controls acceleration from 5-25 feet.
Top needle from there on.

The relationship of the low and mid adjustment is what controls your fuel mixture at idle and near idle. If you screw one inwards you must screw the other outwards to compensate and keep the setting static.

The mid adjustment cannot affect the fuel flow by itself, all it can do is to affect the position into the carb venturi into which the fuel is introduced. It is a very subtle effect but it seems to be the closer to the middle you introduce the fuel the higher the fuel consumption and better "middle throttle" acceleration and punch. The further from the centre is better fuel consumption but a loss in "middle throttle" punch.


Hope this helps
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