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Old 01-25-2007, 05:37 PM   #61
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Freelance_RC, you said:

"By the way, CASTOR OIL IS THE BEST LUBRICATING AGENT than synthetic oil but the problem with castor oil is that they don't tolerate high temperatures like synthetic does, that's why it produce a varnish like by-products that we saw dark stains on nitro engine internals."

Your actually both correct and incorrect at the same time lol! For our application which is a little unique, non-ringed motors castor has benefits and draw backs. The benefits are that castor oil has an extremely high film strength meaning which is great in our non-ringed engines because that makes it unlikely that there will be metal to metal contact (basically seizing) which is often seen as vertical scores or grooves in your piston and/or sleeve.

Where you are incorrect is that castor oil does tolerate high temperatures extremely well. It also has a rather unique quality about it which is that unlike traditional petroleum based oils, as the temperature increases castor oil actually gets thicker rather than thinner! Why is this important? Say that you are running your engine too lean, castor oil will thicken which increases the protection to your engine. Will it be enough to save it, maybe not but it will buy you a slightly larger window of error. The draw back with castor is actually the same thing that makes it a benefit, the film strength. This causes parasitic drag and actually saps power from the engine. Synthetics are in layman's terms "much slipperier" and will provide for superior engine performance but and I stress the but, you must have castor oil in your fuel blend to provide additional protection if you want an engine to last.

Another downside is as you mentioned the dark stains or carbon build up as it is known. This is a common side effect of castor use and you will always have some. Excessive carbon build up can be caused by running engines too rich, too high a percentage of castor, using lower grade castor in the fuel or lack of a dispersant in the additive package.

Regarding the other brands mentioned and bottles etc. I'm not going to comment as I think that everyone has their own way of doing things and it is up to the consumers to decide what is right for them (basically it's personal opinion).


rmdhawaii, to answer your questions:

1) It's actually pretty simply lol, use it as quick as possible. Always keep the cap on the jug. Squeeze air out of the bottle before storing it and never put the fuel from your squeeze bottle back into your gallon jug.

2) I've never understood what exactly stale fuel is?? Do you mean fuel that sits for a while so it looses it's power, because this does not happen. What happens is that fuel can absorb water. How do you tell this? Honestly without running it you would have OT freeze a sample. Water will freeze before the alcohol so you would be able to see if the fuel was contaminated. If you are running and engine you will see it by unusually high temps, difficulty tuning, engine running erratically etc.

3) Cheapest ones are a couple hundred dollars and honestly unless you are teching a race you would not need one.

4) Each individual production batch is sampled.

5) It depends on what brand you are comparing it to (and again I do not want to get into this brand versus that) but it is not unusual for you to see a 30-40 degree drop. Usually to get back to temp you will end up running your needles around 4-5 hours leaner.

6) Neither, I mean that you can run a much tighter deck height (which bumps up the compression ration) without having to worry about detonation or basically the fuel pre-igniting.

7) Yes we have. Increase in torque, increase in max-hp (@7%), decrease in spool time (time from idle to max rpm) to the tune of nearly 20% also rev's higher. This was on a un-optimized engine, meaning just retained to provide max power. No change in deck height, no plug changes etc. which would have resulted in more. This was against a commonly available competition fuel. Couple of factors contributed to this, mainly nitro quality and lubricant package. Either way though it was an eye opener and surprised not only me but the person at the mag. doing the dyno test.
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Old 01-25-2007, 05:54 PM   #62
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Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions Ron. I really appreciate it.
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Old 01-25-2007, 05:57 PM   #63
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and nowhere to buy Werks fuel in South FL to give it a try.

Unless someone knows of a place
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Old 01-25-2007, 06:56 PM   #64
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Now that's a great information. Thanks Ron for the comment.
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Old 01-25-2007, 07:47 PM   #65
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Werks

Can i ask where you get US nitro from ? Seeing that Angus had stopped supply of nitro to any or all racing products including the NHRA and RC effective 18 jan 2006 as per their web site...
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Old 01-25-2007, 08:01 PM   #66
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Last edited by Leo V.; 01-26-2007 at 03:46 PM.
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Old 01-25-2007, 08:25 PM   #67
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rmdhawaii, not a problem it's what manufacturers should be doing.

Dredd, I think that we do sell to a shop in FL. We are west coast based so things are slowly but surely moving from this side across the US.

FREELANCE_RC, no problem.

Emtypunzo's Mum, I think that you might have misunderstood. Angus totaly stopped selling into the automotive market. This means that they severed their relationship with VP who was the suplier of the NHRA. So for the guys buying small quantaties of nitro at a time, as they cant buy it from VP they now have no source for Angus nitro. This has not affected our supply.
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Old 01-25-2007, 08:37 PM   #68
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There are a lot of conflicting arguments regarding US nitro . Especially with its purity. Dow chemichals web site state Angus nitro is 98% pure . What is the other 2 % ... There ahve also been a lot of documentation stating Chinese nitro being more pure and consistant than the american brand.. indipendant tests done over 10 years ago between the two products favoured the chinese product as being the better.

Just curious and you seem to have a very good product knowledge, im interested in your opinion.

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Old 01-25-2007, 08:53 PM   #69
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No confusion on my part, in our applications it's significantly better than Chinese nitro. In purity and performance, no discoloration, less acidity. I'm not spec sheet racing, having tested them both back to back I can say withoug a doubt if you are looking for the best possible performance it's the right choice.
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Old 01-25-2007, 09:33 PM   #70
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Hey no problem .. In all our testing we have found the opposite , Using 98 pure angus opposed to 99.96 chinese found the chinese nitro far our performed the american . Engines were cleaner and ran flawlessly. Acidity is caused by combustion and is a by product of all nitro fuels regardless of where the nitro comes from. But there are a lot more nitros avalable from china and it is possible you encountered product from one of the lesser quality plants.
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Old 01-25-2007, 11:41 PM   #71
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No probelm here either. Just curious though when you say we, who is that? It's prety obvious who I'am and if we are going to discuss/debate things we should probably lay our cards on the table. Based on your previous question about where we get Angus nitro from and the last 2 posts where you are stating that you have done testing etc. I'm asuming that you are also in the fuel business?

Regarding the specs 99.96% frankly is questionable. The vast majority of the Chinese nitro available in the US comes from Wego Chamicals and is marketed under several different brands. Also when you say that you found that the Chinese far outperformed the Angus brand what specificaly are you basing that statement on, the tests that were done in 1996 or personal test results? If so what did you see? When you say the engines were cleaner are you refering to the internal components after being run? If so I would say that that probably has little to nothing to do with the brand of nitro that you ran.

You are correct though when you say that acidity is a by product of combustion which as you pointed out has nothing to do with where the nitro comes from. However it is also a byproduct of the manufacturing process, and as your probably familiar with Angus and Chinese nitro are manufactured using 2 completely different processes so again I'm going to disagree with you. Your quoting numbers from I'm asuming spec sheets so you will see acidity is listed on there. Most Chinese nitro's quote a range from .03%-.1% of volume as acids. This is not a byproduct of combustion, this is a byproduct of how it is manufactured and it is basicaly nitric acid. The question is what is the total content of impurities? Pure nitro is a completely transparent, clear product. Every Chinese nitro that I have seen has discoloration due to impurities and is usualy some varying shade of yellow. Also be carefull when you are quoting numbers as there are several different grades of nitro available. Again asuming that you are in the fuel business and if you were buying Angus brand nitro from VP you should note that the product sold into the automotive industry is not the same as for industrial use and also includes a dye marker to indicate if the nitro is sensitized. In any case this is an interesting topic and something that I'm open to discussing with you further, I would just like to know what company you work for so I know who I'm talking to.
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Old 01-26-2007, 01:04 AM   #72
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Ron,

I sent you another Personal Message (PM). That makes two if you didn't see the first one.
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Old 01-26-2007, 04:41 AM   #73
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Wow

Very interesting science Ron, Eric's lucky to have you on his side!
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Old 01-26-2007, 08:46 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scarlet
You didn't get it, I specifically ask WHAT ARE THE THINGS TO CONSIDER IN A GOOD FUEL, I NEVER ASK WHAT "BRANDS" ARE CONSIDERED GOOD FUEL.
BE like Werks he came out and explain to everybody how to determine a good fuel, why? are you selling fuel? then explain why your fuel is considered good fuel, you sure sounds like a hater patrol hmmmm....


You really need to change the way you write things or phrase things. That is the clear give away that Corex is Scarlet and we already know who Corex is right XXX. <<<<<<<<fill in the xxx
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Old 01-26-2007, 09:10 AM   #75
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I'm out of the loop I guess...who is scarlet/corex?
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