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Old 04-27-2010, 08:31 AM   #5236
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Originally Posted by Riketsu View Post
Hey guys, can someone explain the effects of more or less camber rise?

Meaning using the longer or shorter rear upper arm link?
Using a longer arm definitely makes the car have more front traction out of the turns, and have a better feeling on throttle, because as afm mentioned you'll have less camber rise when you're accelerating, and having weight transfer to rear(you want less camber when you go straight), so tires will have more grip.

Usually longer arm works better on low traction, and I really havent found out the advantage of the shorter arm on NT1.
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Old 04-29-2010, 09:22 AM   #5237
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Originally Posted by musti72 View Post
Using a longer arm definitely makes the car have more front traction out of the turns, and have a better feeling on throttle, because as afm mentioned you'll have less camber rise when you're accelerating, and having weight transfer to rear(you want less camber when you go straight), so tires will have more grip.

Usually longer arm works better on low traction, and I really havent found out the advantage of the shorter arm on NT1.
Rear Camber Links & Roll Center

The following generalizations apply in most cases.
An upper link that is parallel to the lower A-arm will make the Roll Center sit very low when the car is at normal ride height, hence the initial body roll when entering a corner will be big.
An upper link that is angled down will make the Roll Center sit up higher, making the initial roll moment smaller, which makes that particular end of the car feel very aggressive entering the corner.
A very long upper link will make that the roll moment stays more or less the same size when the chassis leans over; and the chassis will roll very deeply into the suspension travel. If a lot of camber is not used, this can make the tires slide because of excessive positive camber.
A short upper link will make that the roll moment becomes a lot smaller when the chassis leans; the chassis won't roll very far.

In general, you could say that:
The angle of the upper link relative to the A-arm determines where the roll center is with the chassis in its neutral position
The length of the upper link determines how much does the height of the Roll Center changes as the chassis rolls.
A short, angled down link will locate the Roll Center very high, and it will stay high as the chassis rolls. So the chassis will roll very little.
A long, angled down link will reduce the car's tendency to roll initially, but as the chassis rolls it won't make much of a difference anymore.
A long, parallel link will locate the Roll Center very low, and it will stay very low as the car corners. Hence, the car (well at least that end of the car) will roll a lot.
A short, parallel link will make the car roll a lot at first, but as it rolls, the tendency will diminish. So it will roll very fast at first, but it will stop quickly.

In terms of car handling, this means that:
When the link is angled down (higher Roll Center) gives the most grip initially, when turning in, or exiting the corner,.
When the link is angled up (lower Roll Center) gives the most grip in the middle of the corner.
If you'd like more aggressive turn-in, and more low-speed steering, set the rear upper link at less of an angle.

What's the best, a high Roll Center or a low one? It all depends on the rest of the car and the track. One thing is for sure:
On a bumpy track, the Roll Center is better placed a little higher; it will prevent the car from rolling from side to side a lot as it takes the bumps, and it will also make it possible to use softer springs which allow the tires to stay in contact with the bumpy track.
On smooth tracks, you can use a very low Roll Center, combined with stiff springs, to increase the car's responsiveness.

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Old 05-04-2010, 01:53 PM   #5238
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Guys, I know this is not the thread for this, but otherwise it ends up being back a couple pages after 1 day, so here is the NT1 stuff I want to sell:
-08 car, w/ lots of spare parts, seen in the first two pictures in the entry. 450$
-Parts in package, selling by offers.
http://mustafamodel.blogspot.com/2010/05/blog-post.html

Parts List:

338523 x2
338517 x2
338521
335559 x2
337254
335720
334140
338720
335510
335251 x2
335250
333080
338575
338560 x2
335325
335500
335540
335711
331101
338187 x2
338525
336030
335100
335225
338183
308305
334130
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Old 05-04-2010, 02:03 PM   #5239
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Anyone want an xray NT1 EC? lol
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Old 05-04-2010, 07:22 PM   #5240
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Anyone want an xray NT1 EC? lol
I do lol
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Old 05-04-2010, 07:32 PM   #5241
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Default shock membrane

hi guys does anyone have issues with the shock bladders swelling up?
i built my aluminium shocks when new in 10 mins and they were perfect, a month later i took the oil out to put some lighter oil and now when i screw the cap down the bladder feels tighter in the body and oil wont bleed out the hole
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Old 05-05-2010, 03:00 AM   #5242
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Originally Posted by mrgsr View Post
hi guys does anyone have issues with the shock bladders swelling up?
i built my aluminium shocks when new in 10 mins and they were perfect, a month later i took the oil out to put some lighter oil and now when i screw the cap down the bladder feels tighter in the body and oil wont bleed out the hole
it's time to replace the bladder with new ones.

or

cheap way to prevent bladder from collapsing: insert one o-ring into bladder

( hint: use o-rings from 1/8 off road buggy / truck )
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Old 05-05-2010, 04:05 PM   #5243
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrgsr View Post
hi guys does anyone have issues with the shock bladders swelling up?
i built my aluminium shocks when new in 10 mins and they were perfect, a month later i took the oil out to put some lighter oil and now when i screw the cap down the bladder feels tighter in the body and oil wont bleed out the hole
You need to replace the bladders pretty often, I think I replace them about every 6 weeks.
New bladders give better performance and it makes it a lot easier to build shocks.

The way I would recommend building the aluminum shocks is the way Jilles Groskamp builds them in the redrc video.
After you filled the shocks and let the air out you drop the bladder in and pinch it a little so the lip of the bladder will sit flush with the shock housing, it shouldn't pop up again.
Before you put the bladder in you can determine the amount of rebound you will end up with by pushing in the shock shaft, for making sure you will have the same amount of rebound on both sides you should place something between the rod end and the housing.
You can use an O ring like Jilles does but I prefer using Caster clips because these are non-compressable. I like to use 4mm of clips all around, for low traction I go to 6mm and very high traction I use 2mm.

After the bladder has settled you can drop in the plastic rod end/insert and screw the cap on.

Another tip on building the alu shocks is to check the plastic shims which go into the lower part of the shock.
Most of the time the small plastic shims fit too tight around the shock shaft and cause excessive drag. Most of the time you can see your shockshafts going dull after a couple of runs.
Increase the diameter of the shims until they will move freely along the shaft, they are only for compressing the o-ring, not for sealing of the shaft.

If you build your shocks like this you will end up with 4 perfectly smooth and matched shocks.
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Old 05-05-2010, 08:25 PM   #5244
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My cheap way of bladder install fix:

Get damper oil in, remove air bubble as usual
Preset rebound as DS said
Put bladder on
Use a ball head hex screwdriver, stick into bladder and start drawing circle from center out to bladder.

With correct amount of pressure and speed of drawing, u can control how many damper oil been bleed out. I usually do it all the way until there is very small amount of damper oil able to bleed, screw cap on, check rebound. If it still rebound too many, do it again, if not, add oil in.

Cheap way of bladder install...
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Old 05-06-2010, 12:56 PM   #5245
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Lol, that one will cost you
What's up diatta are you going to run Murnan motors now? Your skills with a rb m3 would be s deadly combination. (you need more clutch son)
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Old 05-06-2010, 01:05 PM   #5246
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What's up diatta are you going to run Murnan motors now? Your skills with a rb m3 would be s deadly combination. (you need more clutch son)
Lol, yeah i got it in the "sig" now so I guess it's official. Can't wait to see what it does
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Old 05-06-2010, 01:19 PM   #5247
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Lol, yeah i got it in the "sig" now so I guess it's official. Can't wait to see what it does
Best combination the rb m3 is novarossi 2652 with medium manifold. Crazy power!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 05-06-2010, 03:04 PM   #5248
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Hello everyone,

Just built a NT1 and had a couple of questions.

Is the included 600cst shock oil truly a 600cst? I'm probably thinking too hard about it, just seems thicker. I built the car with the aluminum shocks, using the multi valve pistons. I reamed out the plastic shims that compress the oring to ensure free movement, and also built the shocks with only one oring.

I was also wondering about the overdriven front option, and how many people here prefer it? I built the car using it, and drove the it for the first time yesterday and liked it. Just curious I guess on what others liked. Thanks!
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Old 05-06-2010, 03:16 PM   #5249
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Originally Posted by Timmie View Post
Hello everyone,

Just built a NT1 and had a couple of questions.

Is the included 600cst shock oil truly a 600cst? I'm probably thinking too hard about it, just seems thicker. I built the car with the aluminum shocks, using the multi valve pistons. I reamed out the plastic shims that compress the oring to ensure free movement, and also built the shocks with only one oring.

I was also wondering about the overdriven front option, and how many people here prefer it? I built the car using it, and drove the it for the first time yesterday and liked it. Just curious I guess on what others liked. Thanks!
I'm pretty sure the 600 provided in the kit is truly 600cst.
The quality of the Xray silicon oils is one of the best, stays consistent a lot longet compared to Mugen and Xceed oils for instance.

With overdrive you mean the 25T side pulley right?.
Pretty much everyone uses this, it just feels better and helps with keeping the tire wear pretty even from front to rear.
For 1:1 drive you will need an 2mm split but when I true a new set I make the fronts 3mm smaller so you will have a good balance for a longer period.
Also by the time you will have a 2mm split the tires have worn down to their optimal size (59/61) and you can put in some fast laps.

The only reason for using the 26T pulley is when you are using rubber tires for example when you are driving in the wet.
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Old 05-06-2010, 10:43 PM   #5250
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmie View Post
Hello everyone,

Just built a NT1 and had a couple of questions.

Is the included 600cst shock oil truly a 600cst? I'm probably thinking too hard about it, just seems thicker. I built the car with the aluminum shocks, using the multi valve pistons. I reamed out the plastic shims that compress the oring to ensure free movement, and also built the shocks with only one oring.

I was also wondering about the overdriven front option, and how many people here prefer it? I built the car using it, and drove the it for the first time yesterday and liked it. Just curious I guess on what others liked. Thanks!
Yes, it is 600cst allright by xray standard.

Stick with one brand of shock oil because different brands have different cst viscosity feeling. For examples, a 600 cst mugen seiki shock oil is different than 600 cst xray shock oil.

I prefer to use two o-rings, less leakage problems.

I currently use 1:1 overdrive ratio because I still use the original front gear diff. In order to maintain 1:1 overdrive ratio, I have to maintain rear tire wear rate ( from getting smaller diameter than front tires ). Therefore, I have to use softer tire at front and harder tire compound at rear. For examples : I use 35 front, 40 rear. That tire combination is perfect for my hometrack setup.
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Last edited by asw7576; 05-06-2010 at 11:12 PM.
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