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Old 08-20-2007, 12:08 PM   #1756
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Originally Posted by brianhatesnitro View Post
I'm glad that a lot of you feel this way, the Xray forum seems to think I'm absolutely crazy and that cvd's are only for bling factor and that most everyone runs dogbones. CVD's would have only raised the kit price by $20-$25 at most and that would have still been under the Kyosho car (which has them)

I'm only concerned because I'm using 3.5mm of fuel tubing on the inside of the inner driveshaft adapter, 197mm track width and I still had one pop out on me in a very light brush with a flexible strip of barrier. Most of the team drivers setups are 198-199mm front width, some are 0 and some use the .75mm hexes though but nobody says if they use the dogbones or not.

The replacement parts for the dogbones cost around $17 each, the cvd costs $32, so really if they would have just not included the dogbones we would all be happier but I'm still waiting on an answer from Xray R&D on how to stop them from popping out or if this is just one of those things that they planned on making money on which is fine, they can do that.

http://forum.teamxray.com/viewtopic.php?t=6045
I don't know what brano was thinking by referencing the bling-bling article.

Base model or first release cars always seem to come with dog bones. It keeps the cost down, which is totally misguided IMO when it comes to nitro cars, but whatever. Some people just follow the herd.

Almost everybody knows that dog bones are a problem with any car. All it takes are one or two ejections and you are practically forced to go out and buy CVDs. Kyosho even made their front CVD shafts longer, because based on the trackwidth and selected from drive train, the shafts on the inside could pop out. I know this first hand.

We'll see what the setup sheets look like for the Euros. Based on the feedback I've read from non-Team drivers, it seems you can't reliably race the car with dog bones and a 200mm trackwidth.

BTW - I find absolutely nothing wrong with your comments at the Xray forum. Just keep in mind, it is the Xray forum.
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Old 08-20-2007, 12:27 PM   #1757
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Brian,

We have not found anything wrong with the point you are trying to make.

However, posting pictures which DO NOT show much of the front axles at all on any of the cars, and then making the statement, "...all of these drivers appear to be using at least front cvd's but it is difficult to tell for sure on a couple..." is simply misleading.

Furthermore, as rmdhawaii has stated, it is the XRAY forum. Owned and operated (at cost) by XRAY. We welcome constructive criticism that is made in a respectful and tasteful manner. We do not welcome comments that clearly violate the XRAY Forum rules which are made clear for all members.

I hope this clears up any misunderstanding you have concerning this subject.
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Old 08-20-2007, 12:33 PM   #1758
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Originally Posted by rmdhawaii View Post
BTW - I find absolutely nothing wrong with your comments at the Xray forum. Just keep in mind, it is the Xray forum.
Exactly, I don't think I've ever posted anything there and had anything useful in response except from another racer, certainly nothing from Xray except for when Mario told me that they had a backorder on their tools for months to come.

The only other complaint I've had is that spring steel bushing that holds the thrust bearing being 1mm shorter than kyosho's, on some engines this may work well but on a Nova 353 and my new IDM/Picco engines I couldn't get any clutch gap and had to install a 3x0.3mm spacer on the end of my engines crank shaft to even get my clutch to spin. I posted detailed measurements about it and never got anything back except from someone that didn't work for xray that said to put the shim in there but it would have been nice to know their theory behind 6mm vs 7mm.

Other than that, this car is unstoppable. It's extremely consistent and easy to drive fast lap after lap. They just need to drop the "luxury" part out of the title unless they mean it. I don't think any of us would have been afraid to spend another $50 if it meant full cvd's but now we have to spend $130.80 and have junk in our tool boxes.
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Old 08-20-2007, 12:40 PM   #1759
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Originally Posted by teamgp View Post
Brian,
However, posting pictures which DO NOT show much of the front axles at all on any of the cars, and then making the statement, "...all of these drivers appear to be using at least front cvd's but it is difficult to tell for sure on a couple..." is simply misleading.
Unfortunately that was the best I could come up with on short notice, can you tell me that the cars in the list below from the EC race all ran dogbones or can you help me figure out how they don't lose them? My point is that I want a resolution to my problem, is that just buying the cvd's then fine. I know Xray tested the car in every manner possible so I believe there should be an honest fix for the dogbone problem. I keep reading from Xray about how good the car is stock, but I can't quite get it there.

1. Teemu Leino - XRAY NT1
4. Martin Hudy - XRAY NT1
5. Niki Duina - XRAY NT1
6. Helge Johannessen - XRAY NT1
7. Jilles Groskamp - XRAY NT1
8. Mark Gilliland - XRAY NT1
9. Andreas Myrberg - XRAY NT1
11. Beat Walti - XRAY NT1
12. Martin christensen - XRAY NT1
13. Basile Concialdi - XRAY NT1
23. Manuel Singer - XRAY NT1
24. Robert Pietch - XRAY NT1
31. Juraj Hudy - XRAY NT1
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Old 08-20-2007, 12:46 PM   #1760
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Originally Posted by brianhatesnitro View Post
I'm glad that a lot of you feel this way, the Xray forum seems to think I'm absolutely crazy and that cvd's are only for bling factor and that most everyone runs dogbones. CVD's would have only raised the kit price by $20-$25 at most and that would have still been under the Kyosho car (which has them)

I'm only concerned because I'm using 3.5mm of fuel tubing on the inside of the inner driveshaft adapter, 197mm track width and I still had one pop out on me in a very light brush with a flexible strip of barrier. Most of the team drivers setups are 198-199mm front width, some are 0 and some use the .75mm hexes though but nobody says if they use the dogbones or not.

The replacement parts for the dogbones cost around $17 each, the cvd costs $32, so really if they would have just not included the dogbones we would all be happier but I'm still waiting on an answer from Xray R&D on how to stop them from popping out or if this is just one of those things that they planned on making money on which is fine, they can do that.

http://forum.teamxray.com/viewtopic.php?t=6045
Well it seems that I am confused as to why your upset with Xray for not coming with CVD's in the kit.... It really depends on whether you run a solid, diff or a front-oneway as to the requirements of the axles. I personally run dog bones in my 720 and so do all the team guys because a light tap on-throttle with the wall is good for breaking them. If you need to run a narrow front end because you pop them out maybe you should run a spacer in the diff out-drive to space the axle out so you may run the car wider. I personally would rather pop one out; than break a $32 part. Keep in mind that you can space it out from the inside because the axles on the outside do the turning...
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Old 08-20-2007, 12:52 PM   #1761
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By the way if you use fuel tubing that can compress you will pop a dog bone every time. Try a piece of the tree the parts come on. Make sure to check the gap. It has to allow the arms to have full upward travel....
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Old 08-20-2007, 12:57 PM   #1762
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I personally run dog bones in my 720 and so do all the team guys because a light tap on-throttle with the wall is good for breaking them.
That's interesting. As rough as I've been with my cars, I've never broken a CVD on either my RRR or MTX-4.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rangulo View Post
If you need to run a narrow front end because you pop them out maybe you should run a spacer in the diff out-drive to space the axle out so you may run the car wider. I personally would rather pop one out; than break a $32 part. Keep in mind that you can space it out from the inside because the axles on the outside do the turning...
He has tried running a fuel tubing in the outdrive, but is still having problems.

It's basically a $74 problem (CVD x 2). Either you live with any issues you have with the front dog bone and or cough up the money. Simple as that.
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Old 08-20-2007, 12:57 PM   #1763
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By the way if you use fuel tubing that can compress you will pop a dog bone every time. Try a piece of the tree the parts come on. Make sure to check the gap. It has to allow the arms to have full upward travel....
That is a very good tip.

It's just a timing thing. I didn't see your post about the tree part until after my post.
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Old 08-20-2007, 01:03 PM   #1764
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Originally Posted by rmdhawaii View Post
Has anybody done a lap time comparison with different batteries to see if lighter actual translates into faster? How about lower gas tank?
I did right after the change and although I went slightly faster I think the increase in pace had more to do with improving conditions than anything else. I am not convinced that the weight reduction or lower cg made the car faster but I am certain it doesn't slow the car.

Since changing I have been told my car transitions quicker but I don't see the difference.

In theory weight reduction and lower CG are definite advantages but on the track the gain was minimal at best. I would say for those considering the bling battery tray or just putting their car together the AAA pack is the way to go but if you already have 2/3A pack its probably a waste of money.


Regarding track width and dogbones I generally run between 195 and 197mm front width and have lost bones with the front as narrow as 196mm. The front CVDs are durable and a worthwhile upgrade for anyone that ever makes a mistake.

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Old 08-20-2007, 01:06 PM   #1765
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Brian, don't forget they don't use boards on european tracks like we do here in the US. I never used dogbones (in front) on any of my previous cars and I don't use them on NT1, but Rafael makes a good point as well... It all depends on who you ask and what they prefer. If you keep having this issue with dog bones, buy CVDs and you'll be all set...
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Old 08-20-2007, 01:30 PM   #1766
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That is a very good tip.

It's just a timing thing. I didn't see your post about the tree part until after my post.

Who says you have to throw away all the crap in the box!!!

That is true about the tracks in Europe. NO boards. US tracks are like hockey rinks. Lots and lots of banging... Trust me on the parts tree it works...
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Old 08-20-2007, 01:42 PM   #1767
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Originally Posted by mtveten View Post
I did right after the change and although I went slightly faster I think the increase in pace had more to do with improving conditions than anything else. I am not convinced that the weight reduction or lower cg made the car faster but I am certain it doesn't slow the car.

Since changing I have been told my car transitions quicker but I don't see the difference.

In theory weight reduction and lower CG are definite advantages but on the track the gain was minimal at best. I would say for those considering the bling battery tray or just putting their car together the AAA pack is the way to go but if you already have 2/3A pack its probably a waste of money.


Regarding track width and dogbones I generally run between 195 and 197mm front width and have lost bones with the front as narrow as 196mm. The front CVDs are durable and a worthwhile upgrade for anyone that ever makes a mistake.

Mark

Wow you must get a load of steering with such a narrow front end..Im usually at 199 and the car is on rails...as for dog bones I agree you cant go wrong with Cvds I have never had a cvd fail on my RRR...I think its a positive hop-up
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Old 08-20-2007, 01:45 PM   #1768
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Maybe there needs to be a NT1 US Spec.

- CVDs
- Hard front bumper
- Thread lock for the hub nuts
- Yellow clutch shoe

For those of you that don't know, XRAY makes a 2 versions of their EP touring car - one for foam tires (i.e. T2 '007 US) and one for rubber tires (T2 '007 EU).
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Old 08-20-2007, 02:17 PM   #1769
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Team XRAY's A-Main final race report for the 2007 European Championship is up on their Web site:
http://www.teamxray.com/teamxray/new...p?news_id=1245
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Old 08-20-2007, 02:25 PM   #1770
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To me, spacing the dogbones with fuel tubing does not work...when you hit, the fuel tubing compresses and the dogbone will come out.

On my cars w/ dogbones (my old serpent cars and the NT1 when I first built it), I always space the dogbones with something metal, usually the combination of a small nut + a washer. I space them enough so the dogbones have as little side-to-side play as possible without binding the suspension. I had no problems using this method on the NT1 on a track with hard barriers (well, I did pop one out, but that was only because the pillow balls backed out - I had not applied loctite to their threads when I first assembled the car).

The only reason I ended up installing the CVD's was because I wanted the freedom to adjust the front track width without re-shimming the dogbones - plus I had been familiar with HUDY's magic steel from my serpent days and I knew they would hold up great.

I myself agree that the CVD's are a worthwhile upgrade and I would have liked to see them included in the kit, BUT I can understand why XRAY did not do this - because we (as dealers) are very familiar with the funny things that go on in a customer's head when the price of a kit exceeds $400.
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