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Old 02-01-2003, 12:27 AM   #16
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I'm sure that the clutch is NOT trhe problem. That was one of the first things I checked.
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Old 02-01-2003, 01:22 AM   #17
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I have a similar problem, but I don't think its as bad as yours... On my TR, it bogs a little RIGHT when it starts to get off the line, but about 1/2 a second later, once the revs build up, it screams. The needle adjustments will vary based on your location above sea level, temperature, and humidity, so unless someone lives in the exact same conditions as you, getting their needle settings will more than likely not work... But as always, there is the "starting point". The top needle (from completely shut) should be 1 1/2 to 1 3/4's out. The bottom needle (from flush with the metal) should be about a turn to a turn and a half in. Just work your way from there. I've noticed that the TR likes to have a pretty lean bottom end, but don't over do it. My TR doesn't like to run under 260 at really any place I race under any conditions. I've even had it going as high as 290 once, it seemed to be the optimal setting for the engine on that day and on that track.

Also remember that the engine temp should not vary a whole lot when its idling vs when its running race pace. If you wanna make sure yours is tuned "right", then warm up the engine till it gets up to your normal racing temperature. Once you get up to temp, bring it in for a check. Let it sit for about 10-15 seconds and then check the temp. If it went up, your bottom end is lean and the top end is rich, if it went down, the bottom needle is rich and the top is probably lean. Once you get it to where it only varies maybe 10-15 degrees when its idling vs when its on race pace, then you engine should ALMOST be perfectly setup. You may want to adjust based on how the car is performing.

Anyway, I personally love my TR, it produces insane power through pretty much the entire powerband, plus I can get about 7-8 minutes off a full tank. It only bogs RIGHT at the start of a race, I don't have that initial punch, but once I get going, the motor is insane. Anyhoo, good luck tuning. If you're still having problems post again and we'll try and get things figured out.

Last edited by Aeon Racer; 02-01-2003 at 01:25 AM.
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Old 02-01-2003, 07:03 AM   #18
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Aeon Racer,


Thanks a lot for the help. I'm a little sceptical running the engine so hot,but I'll definantly see what it does. I'll drive it before the end of the weekend and see what it does. As far as checking the temp now, I'm using a raytec laser pointed thermometer, checking it right next to the glow plug is where I get my readings, is this how your doing it?
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Old 02-01-2003, 08:10 PM   #19
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Exactly where I'm doing it and with the same temp gauge. I actually take it in two place, right by the plug and on top of the heatsink, so I know if the temperature is being distributed well along the heatsink. Anyway, I wouldn't recommend tuning it based on temperature only; a temp provides a reference point for tuning. The 290 I said I had only run once, the car just seemed to work the best at that temp on that particular day. Usually my TR works best when it's in the 250-275 range, I had it going 240 once and that was just too rich. You should really base all of your tuning on how you think the engine should feel. If you do that, the engine should run great as long as it doesn't get TOO hot (don't push 300, or your engine might be crying by the end of the night). Another thing I might want to add about the engine, it doesn't sound like a JP or a MT12; the TR has it's distinct low pitch sound. I hear JP's and MT's screaming down the track and I think "wow that must be a killer engine", but when I'm racing against it, my TR seems to slightly pull both of those motors down the back stretch. Like I said before, the TR has insane power...

Anyway, another check you might wanna do is pinch the fuel tubing so that you limit the fuel flow to the engine. You should hear the revs go up because you are limiting the fuel. As soon as you hear the revs shooting up, release the fuel line. If I remember correctly, when the revs shoot up really fast it means your bottom end is too lean, and vice versa. I'd have to check up on that though, so don't quote me on it. Anyway, good luck with your tuning, hopefully you get it set just the way you like it.
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Old 02-01-2003, 08:36 PM   #20
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Killer deal, Thanks...

I have just started to check the tempuratures at the top of the head, and the temp is normally about 20 degrees higher at the top than at the plug. I take my cement readings at the plug though. I didn't think about the pinching the fuel idea, that is a good point that I will try. You are right about the bottom end leaning out when you pinch the line, that's why it revs up. I did a lot of homework on this engine before I bought it and the Mugen MT-12 was one of my other choices. I ultimatley ruled it out because the TR got better comments from users, and most articles I saw proved that the TR was more powerful than almost every other .12 sized roar legal engine out there. Plus the fact that it's an OS so parts are readily available and tuning is never a problem with OS engines. However,I've experienced quite a bit of problems with this one. I'm not giving up yet though, hopefulley my TR will come to life on my next outing.

I didn't get to drive it today, the dealership I work for got in 7 new cars that needed to be checked out today so I was working all day. Maybe I'll get chance tommorow...

One more question AEON Racer, which plug are you running?
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Old 02-01-2003, 09:02 PM   #21
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Yeah, a 20 degree difference between the two temp areas sounds about right, I believe my difference is usually about 10-15 degrees. But, its hotter at the top? It should be hotter at the plug. I can almost guarantee that's why your engine is bogging... I don't remember what the settings were for when that happened, but I think it was that the bottom end was too lean and top end too rich... I'd have to take my car out for a run and double check. I've got too much stuff to remember these days, damn college.

I use OS #8 plugs, the A8 I believe. I've also had good luck with the A5's and MC 59's, but neither last as long as the #8's. With the MC 59's, I had to use two copper washers between the plug and the head...

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Old 02-01-2003, 09:06 PM   #22
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Really? Why two gaskets with the MC-59?
I thought the extra two threads would help the engine run better because it's furthur down in the cylinder. My Picco's will bearly run and give good power with anything but a MC-59. So I have quite a few of those in my tool box
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Old 02-01-2003, 09:11 PM   #23
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By having the plug further down in the engine, you are limiting the amount of fuel/air mixture that will fit into the combustion chamber when the engine is about to do it's downstroke. Now think about it, wouldn't you want more room for fuel/air to make more power? I know I would. The MC-59 is a long plug, so I always put two washers onto it. I noticed it worked better with my TR with two vs just one.

Don't forget to re-read my last post, I had to edit it after I re-read your post...

Last edited by Aeon Racer; 02-01-2003 at 09:16 PM.
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Old 02-01-2003, 09:25 PM   #24
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However, if the plug isn't all the way in the cylinder, the hot part of the plug won't burn all the air/fuel in the cylinder anyway,it'll leave a hot spot in the piston, therfore giving you a bad rich bog that's impossible to work with.
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Old 02-01-2003, 09:30 PM   #25
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True, but since it's a long plug, (just look @ it compared to an A5, it's quite a bit longer) it needs the extra washers in the TR to prevent the cylinder from hitting the plug... With two washers, its almost perfect IMO.
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Old 02-01-2003, 09:32 PM   #26
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Oh yeah, I agree. OS does not request a long plug for the TR, so I'll go with what you said. Thanks.
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