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Old 08-22-2006, 05:06 PM   #1
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Default OS .12TR (11A) engine problem

Guys, pls help me here as i'm really at a lost now. I'm breaking in this new engine but notice that the car will only wants to move at around mid throttle with the HSN set very lean at 1 round 30 degree from closed position. is it normal? it won't want to fireup at 2 rounds from close & i had to reduce the HSN till about 1 round from close then it will fire up alright.

Should i richen the HSN 1st and then try to adjust the LSN so that it'll pickup at low throttle and not at mid throttle?I really don't know what to do because this is my 2nd engine and this one come with 4 screws including the metering needle which i had no experience with. What does Metering needle do?

Do i need to richen the HSN, then adjust the LSN for low throttle cruising and then the Metering needle for mid to high throttle improvement?

How lean on the HSN does you OS engine run? i don't want to risk over heating my new engine. I'm on the 2 tank of break in now and it's still very unstable on the needle setting. Any help will be appreciated.Or does anyone here using the same engine pls give me your needle configuration so that i can try on mine.

cheers

Last edited by stonely0; 08-22-2006 at 06:34 PM.
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Old 08-22-2006, 06:49 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stonely0
Guys, pls help me here as i'm really at a lost now. I'm breaking in this new engine but notice that the car will only wants to move at around mid throttle with the HSN set very lean at 1 round 30 degree from closed position. is it normal? it won't want to fireup at 2 rounds from close & i had to reduce the HSN till about 1 round from close then it will fire up alright.

Should i richen the HSN 1st and then try to adjust the LSN so that it'll pickup at low throttle and not at mid throttle?I really don't know what to do because this is my 2nd engine and this one come with 4 screws including the metering needle which i had no experience with. What does Metering needle do?

Do i need to richen the HSN, then adjust the LSN for low throttle cruising and then the Metering needle for mid to high throttle improvement?

How lean on the HSN does you OS engine run? i don't want to risk over heating my new engine. I'm on the 2 tank now and it's still very unstable on the needle setting. Any help will be appreciated.Or does anyone here using the same engine pls give me your needle configuration so that i can try on mine.

cheers
The OS 11A and the 10J have the same baseline carb settings for the hsn and the lsn... Do not... I repeat, do not touch the midrange needle for any reason... Turn the hsn to close and then back out 2 full turns... That's all... You're now set at the factory setting for the hsn... For the lsn, turn/set the needle so that's it's flush with the carb body and then turn it in 2 1/2 turns... page 18... This is also factory settings... With the OS engine, once the lsn is at factory setting, leave it alone and all you have to do is lean the the hsn to get the correct settings for speed... Once this is all done, you may still have to adjust your idle screw a bit... Put in a new fresh glow plug and fuel... I'll also post the link the the TR-12 owners manual... The carbs setting info will be on page 18 for the lsn and page 14 for the hsn... Good luck and read the manual completely first so that you have a clear undering standing of your motor... Remember, do not touch the mid-range needle for any reason and the needle settings for the 10J carb are the same for the 11A... Good luck

http://www.osengines.com/manuals/12tr-manual.pdf

RC_Alan
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Old 08-22-2006, 07:12 PM   #3
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When you say Mid-range needle are you refering to the Metering Needle? if so, I had already touches the Metering needle... My manual (your manual is different from mine... everything is the same except mine had an extra section on 11A) says use this to set the mid & High throttle while doing the fine tuning and not to touch the Mixture control valve (LSN) i'm really confuse. My engine is the Turbo version. I bring it to the hobby shop and i see the guy screwing around the mettering needle.... now what should i do?

My manual for 11A says that the defualt position for the metering needle is flush and then screw in but it did not say screw how many turns and how deep. I also notice that the version of my manual is not available on the OS website

What if i reset all needle to factory setting and it won't fire up, then should i try to lean the HSN till it fire up?
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Old 08-22-2006, 07:32 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by stonely0
When you say Mid-range needle are you refering to the Metering Needle? if so, I had already touches the Metering needle... My manual (your manual is different from mine... everything is the same except mine had an extra section on 11A) says use this to set the mid & High throttle while doing the fine tuning and not to touch the Mixture control valve (LSN) i'm really confuse. My engine is the Turbo version. I bring it to the hobby shop and i see the guy screwing around the mettering needle.... now what should i do?

My manual for 11A says that the defualt position for the metering needle is flush and then screw in but it did not say screw how many turns and how deep. I also notice that the version of my manual is not available on the OS website

What if i reset all needle to factory setting and it won't fire up, then should i try to lean the HSN till it fire up?
You're making this harder then it really is... Follow the steps I posted above and set the mid-range to be flush with the carb body... After that, don't touch it again... That's the one needle that is factory set and never really needs to be touch for any reason... Look at your owners manual to get a clear picture of what is flush with the carb body or if you can remember the way it looked before the guys at your lhs messed things up... Once this is done, You should have no problems after that... Don't get into what if's... First set the carb needles as so stated, put in a new fresh glow plug and fresh fuel and you'll be alright... Do what is posted first and if you have problems after that... Post back what happen. It should fire right up and be a tad on the rich side... Lean the hsn one tick/hour at a time til the motor is right on the money... If the idle is to high, turn the idle screw down til you get and nice smooth idle... That's it... One more question, how much fuel have you ran through that motor so far and how hot did the temps get while you were breaking in the motor???

RC_Alan

Last edited by rc_alan; 08-22-2006 at 08:07 PM.
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Old 08-22-2006, 07:52 PM   #5
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I had so far close to 3 tank for breaking in now.Temperature are quite hot but i don't had a heat measuring device. I'll do as you suggest and will let you know. I'm using 25% trinity. But i remember once i set the HSN & LSN to default with the mid - range 1.5 turn out from flush the car will fire up but will not move on throttle. Maybe i'll try later with HSN & LSN to default and the mid - range to flush (without turning).

What does it mean when the car will not move on throttle? too rich?
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Old 08-22-2006, 08:33 PM   #6
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the standard settings for this emgine are

mid range is 0.5mm in, this is very precise so get a digital caliper
low end is flush with rod end not carb face
the top is 1 /34 out from closed


these stock settings are in the manual

my top end is close to about 1 1/4 out from closed
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Last edited by mrgsr; 08-22-2006 at 08:42 PM. Reason: spelling mistake
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Old 08-22-2006, 08:40 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrgsr
the standard settings for this emgine are

mid range is 0.5mm in, this is very precise so get a digital caliper
low end is flush with end not card face
the top is 1 /34 out from closed

my top end is close to about 1 1/4 out from closed
hi what do you mean by 'End not card face'? 0.5mm in for mid-range is pretty deep. are you sure you did not make a typo error on the measurement.
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Old 08-22-2006, 08:42 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrgsr
the standard settings for this emgine are

mid range is 0.5mm in, this is very precise so get a digital caliper
low end is flush with end not card face
the top is 1 /34 out from closed

my top end is close to about 1 1/4 out from closed
This guy is still breaking in his motor... And the settings posted earlier are from OS's website/manual... Let's not confuse stonely0... When the motor is broken in... His needles settings will change a tab bit... I'm sure he's not using the same fuel as you are and needles settings will differ from motor to motor... Stonely0... Tomorrow, got out and break the motor as per the manual and you'll be ok...

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Old 08-22-2006, 09:16 PM   #9
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I'll try the default setting 1st later today after i get home from work. Will pose the finding later here today. Thanks for your help. just one final question... If the car is not moving from the default setting, Do i turn in the HSN or the LSN till it is moving at low throttle?

sorry to be a pain

Last edited by stonely0; 08-22-2006 at 09:48 PM.
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Old 08-22-2006, 09:32 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by stonely0
I'll try the default setting 1st later today after i get home from work. Will pose the finding later here today. Thanks for your help. just one final question... If the car is not moving from the default setting, i'll turn in the HSN till it is moving at low throttle am i right? after which, if the idle is right i'll tune the LSN till the throttle response is good at low throttle trigger correct?

sorry to be a pain
No problem... If your car is not moving and you have a good tune on your motor, I would then adjust the radio... Your throttle settings on your radio may need to be adjusted as well... Invest a temp gauge and keep your motor from temping above 250* will be safe for your motor... You know, it's hard/next to impossible to tune a motor over the internet... Take your time with the break in and heat cycle the motor between re-fuelings... ie... Let the motor cool off for 15mins and bring the piston down to bdc using the flywheel... After about 7-8 tanks a fuel and breaking the motor as per the OS owners manual, you'll be in business... Make sure you radio is adjusted correctly and your car should be a Rocket in no time...

RC_Alan
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Old 08-23-2006, 09:14 AM   #11
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Ok, i just had 4 tanks of breaking in today. not running much but just getting it to run the most at mid throttle on short burst. The problem with it not moving is because i realize that the HSN are too rich. I only manage to get it move around decently at about 1.5 turn from close and it's still a tag too rich and lean in the middle.

i had to touch the LSN too today because the HSN are going on too lean to get it move decently and occasionally stall. So i lean the LSN abit & richen my HSN in order to get it move successfully without much glitch.

It still stall sometime when i throttle up from stationary... too rich? where HSN or LSN? also, today i saw air bubble at the bottom outside of the heat sink but upon close look, one of the screw from the heat sink is loose with half of it sticking out... is it normal to have bubble if the heat sink screw come loose? i hope i did not had a bad engine. Also, the sound of the engine sounds funny... it had the usual RPM sound but also a faint sound of metal (i suppose... i don't know how to describe it) spinning. Is it normal for OS .12TZ engine? It's not the RPM sound is like a consistence spinning sound or rotating sound... MY other .15 engine don't sound this way. Pls i hope nothing serious here i really hate to bring it to the LHS again.

a few question here...

1) when on throttle up it stall means too rich or lean?

2) if it stall a few second after firing up what do you think is the problem?

3) somtime it stall after i throttle up... it just speed up and then die cold without high RPM sound... it just drop dead sliently... what's tat?

4) i don't have a heat measuring device but i use the spit test and only once today the spit had bubbles jumping like mad and i cut the engine let it rest and richen it later. other time it just dried up after 4 or 5 sec. am i doing ok?

5) is there any syptom i can tell that the engine is stressing and going to spoil soon on overheat? I need to know the tell tale sign.

6) I'm still on the 5th tank of running in and not in full throttle yet but will my impromptu stall be iron out soon? Whenever i stall i +/- the HSN to see wherei go wrong am i doing it right?

7) the sound of the engine sounds funny... it had the usual RPM sound but also a faint sound of metal (i suppose... i don't know how to describe it) spinning. Is it normal for OS .12TZ engine?

pls advice. & thanks for yor help... especially Alan.
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Old 08-23-2006, 10:45 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stonely0
Ok, i just had 4 tanks of breaking in today. not running much but just getting it to run the most at mid throttle on short burst. The problem with it not moving is because i realize that the HSN are too rich. I only manage to get it move around decently at about 1.5 turn from close and it's still a tag too rich and lean in the middle.

i had to touch the LSN too today because the HSN are going on too lean to get it move decently and occasionally stall. So i lean the LSN abit & richen my HSN in order to get it move successfully without much glitch.

It still stall sometime when i throttle up from stationary... too rich? where HSN or LSN? also, today i saw air bubble at the bottom outside of the heat sink but upon close look, one of the screw from the heat sink is loose with half of it sticking out... is it normal to have bubble if the heat sink screw come loose? i hope i did not had a bad engine. Also, the sound of the engine sounds funny... it had the usual RPM sound but also a faint sound of metal (i suppose... i don't know how to describe it) spinning. Is it normal for OS .12TZ engine? It's not the RPM sound is like a consistence spinning sound or rotating sound... MY other .15 engine don't sound this way. Pls i hope nothing serious here i really hate to bring it to the LHS again.

a few question here...

1) when on throttle up it stall means too rich or lean?

2) if it stall a few second after firing up what do you think is the problem?

3) somtime it stall after i throttle up... it just speed up and then die cold without high RPM sound... it just drop dead sliently... what's tat?

4) i don't have a heat measuring device but i use the spit test and only once today the spit had bubbles jumping like mad and i cut the engine let it rest and richen it later. other time it just dried up after 4 or 5 sec. am i doing ok?

5) is there any syptom i can tell that the engine is stressing and going to spoil soon on overheat? I need to know the tell tale sign.

6) I'm still on the 5th tank of running in and not in full throttle yet but will my impromptu stall be iron out soon? Whenever i stall i +/- the HSN to see wherei go wrong am i doing it right?

7) the sound of the engine sounds funny... it had the usual RPM sound but also a faint sound of metal (i suppose... i don't know how to describe it) spinning. Is it normal for OS .12TZ engine?

pls advice. & thanks for yor help... especially Alan.
First off, it sounds like you have an air leak... If you're seeing bubbles at the bottoms side of the heat sink... Tighten up all the screws on the heat sink and make sure the glow plug is tight too... Don't over tighten the glow plug, just make sure it's tight... In your earlier post, you said your motor was an OS TR-12, now you're saying TZ-12... Which one??? Question, is this your first nitro motor you've had and broken in??? When breaking in your new motor, it's supposed to be rich... and running slow... You shouldn't be able to shift into 2nd gear as well... Once you're done driving the car and breaking in the motor as per the owners manual, it will tell you when you should start to lean the hsn and the lsn... Your tuning settings are off because you have an air leak... Correct that and continue with your breakin... Oh if you're hearing a funny/weird metal sound, it's because your cooling head is loose... You should really invest in a temp gauge... Cost all of $35.00 in most hobby shops...

RC_Alan
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Old 08-23-2006, 11:15 AM   #13
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Hi Alan, yes it took me half a tank to realize that my screw is loose in the heat sink and the air is leaking. after i tighten it... it's ok. now i'm trying to adjust the HSN so that the car will not stall during break in. My engine is OS.12TR (11a) sorry about the typos. This is my 2nd engine & the most difficuit ones to break in. I did not shift to 2nd gear as my car is not running at such a high speed now.

You mean heat sink when you say cooling head am i right? I don't think so... the sound is still there after i tighten the heatsink... it might have come from the exhuast i'm not sure. if feels & sound like a metal revovling sound and it's light and sometime feels & sound like 'Air' gush sound or 'Wish-washing' hum it's really difficuit to describ and also difficuit to capture on recorder.

Is my airleak cause by the loosen screws in the cooling head? I could not get the HSN correct... it's either too rich and it stall or too lean and it stall and i very much tempted to turn the LSN to fixed it. is it adviceable?
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Old 08-23-2006, 11:46 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by stonely0
Hi Alan, yes it took me half a tank to realize that my screw is loose in the heat sink and the air is leaking. after i tighten it... it's ok. now i'm trying to adjust the HSN so that the car will not stall during break in. My engine is OS.12TR (11a) sorry about the typos. This is my 2nd engine & the most difficuit ones to break in. I did not shift to 2nd gear as my car is not running at such a high speed now.

You mean heat sink when you say cooling head am i right? I don't think so... the sound is still there after i tighten the heatsink... it might have come from the exhuast i'm not sure. if feels & sound like a metal revovling sound and it's light and sometime feels & sound like 'Air' gush sound or 'Wish-washing' hum it's really difficuit to describ and also difficuit to capture on recorder.

Is my airleak cause by the loosen screws in the cooling head? I could not get the HSN correct... it's either too rich and it stall or too lean and it stall and i very much tempted to turn the LSN to fixed it. is it adviceable?
Is my airleak cause by the loosen screws in the cooling head? Yes

Set the hsn back to 2 turns out from close... Then lean it til it's 1-3/4 turns out..... Then do a pinch test to set your lsn... With the motor running, pinch the fuel tubing... The one from the fuel tank to the carb.... Your motor should idle fine for 4 sec's and then rev up... If it takes longer then 4 sec's then your lsn is to rich... lean it one hour... That's not 1 full turn... That's 1 tick on the hour hand... Check it again and continue to do so until it's got the 4 sec idle and then starts to rev up... If you pinch the fuel tubing and the motor dies between 1-3 sec's, your lsn is to lean... Richen it 1 hour at time and continue to check it until it's at the 4 sec mark... Once it's set, you should not have to touch it again... Now continue with driving your car and breaking in the motor... That motor might take over 10-15 tanks of fuel before it's broken in... As I stated before, check your radio and see if the throttle settings are correct... Also check your throttle linkage and see if you're getting a full throw and a full throttle opening... This I can't do for you... If you can figure that one out... Take it back to the lhs and have them set it for you... The main thing is getting your needle settings close and by that temp gauge... .02

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Old 08-23-2006, 02:08 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stonely0
Hi Alan, yes it took me half a tank to realize that my screw is loose in the heat sink and the air is leaking. after i tighten it... it's ok. now i'm trying to adjust the HSN so that the car will not stall during break in. My engine is OS.12TR (11a) sorry about the typos. This is my 2nd engine & the most difficuit ones to break in. I did not shift to 2nd gear as my car is not running at such a high speed now.

You mean heat sink when you say cooling head am i right? I don't think so... the sound is still there after i tighten the heatsink... it might have come from the exhuast i'm not sure. if feels & sound like a metal revovling sound and it's light and sometime feels & sound like 'Air' gush sound or 'Wish-washing' hum it's really difficuit to describ and also difficuit to capture on recorder.

Is my airleak cause by the loosen screws in the cooling head? I could not get the HSN correct... it's either too rich and it stall or too lean and it stall and i very much tempted to turn the LSN to fixed it. is it adviceable?
If everything is tight and you still hear that sound, that's not good. I've heard engines have that same spinning metal sound, and it means a bearing is going bad. With the way you're describing the sound, I'm guessing that's what it is, I just can imagine it would happen this early. However, if you ran the engine too lean in break-in, that's probably what caused it. That same exact engine was my first racing engine and the main problem I had with mine is that the low speed needle was so rich that it wouldn't start. Other than that, nothing needed to be tweaked, for break-in at least...
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