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Old 06-03-2003, 07:00 AM   #1426
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One of the complexities of living “Downunder” is that by the time I get back here, everyone has had their say. It also means I can reply to multiple people in one fell swoop, so here goes . . . .

modellor,
It’s cool, I wasn’t taking it personally - just explaining.

modellor and nitrodude,
I would suggest the Smeltz thing was rather different but, no matter, the guys got that sorted out ages ago. I really think we must move on from this. I also believe we should refrain from pussyfooting around it, too. I can’t imagine that either Mr Smeltz or Motorman want to see any of us constantly being afraid of upseting them.
Yep, Dennis probably shouldn’t have made comment regarding spelling of his name. Similarly, I also, shouldn’t have corrected Top Gun’s spelling.

Top Gun 777
Yes, your first post referred to the "Comercialized toy!”
My initial response was, I believe, suitably lightweight, just suggesting that you were being “a bit unnecessary”.
I believe I understood you correctly. I took issue only with the insult and pressed that point. Your subsequent posts gave no hint that I might have misunderstood.
I did not want to debate what might actually constitute a “Comercialized toy” as it was beside the point, and I am not qualified to make a judgement on such matters, anyway.

I hope that clears some things up.
Happily it looks like we are back on track, now.

Cheers,
Gavin
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Old 06-03-2003, 09:56 AM   #1427
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Quote:
Originally posted by InitialD
English is not my mother tongue either... Unfortunately for some people, the english language can be a little difficult to master and everything English that comes out from them (verbal or written) can be a little rude or direct at times and this can lead to a lot of misinterpretation especially in a forum like this. I'm sure you know what I mean. But not being proficient in the English language does not mean that we need to brand him a troll or even a terrorist Everybody is entitled to participate and contribute.
Thank you very much for understanding me. It is really what was happened, I didn't want to to insult or offence anybody, specially handwork of any modell builder (Racer or engine Modifier). I just tried to bring the point where we can start talking about the engines. Unfortunatelly, it was saying bad (my english problem).
So, I believe, if everything was cleared out, it is time to move on. If somebody thinks my presents here is unnesseccary, I can leave this forrum and will not bother anybody with my english. But if you guys think you can leave with that, I will be happy to stay here and talk to you. It is realy plesure to read all this posts (regardless of the content in there). So, it is up to you guys, to make deccision. But it is last time when I tryed to explane my english situation-it will be no more talk about it.
Thank you very much.
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Old 06-03-2003, 10:30 AM   #1428
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Your doing fine Top Gun. Keep posting your opinion. Just do what most people do and only listen to those comments you want to hear.
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Old 06-03-2003, 01:04 PM   #1429
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Quote:
Originally posted by Motorman
Just for you

OS 81 Marine Custom

and no you do not want to know what that muther cost.
ROFL!!

I just HATE it when people say that to me!

Motorman - why did you do dual plug? Does it make better combustion? Probably more uniform, anyway? And, just looking, you able to do so because of water cooling? more place to do so?

Anyway - very nice.
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Old 06-03-2003, 01:39 PM   #1430
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Quote:
Originally posted by Boomer
ROFL!!

Motorman - why did you do dual plug? Does it make better combustion? Probably more uniform, anyway? And, just looking, you able to do so because of water cooling? more place to do so?

Anyway - very nice.
Can I say something?
I belive that the dual plug is related to idle speed of the engine-the size is 15 cc, amount of fuel going to combation chamber is too great for single filament-it is cool down by fresh mixture. On a lot of 15 cc size engines there are dual plug. It also can be related to control auto-ignition which is common for big size engines. I might be wrong-I have never work with them (more then 60 size) , it just a thought.

Last edited by Top Gun 777; 06-03-2003 at 05:07 PM.
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Old 06-03-2003, 03:02 PM   #1431
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Quote:
Originally posted by Number9
Casting aspersions on someone's handiwork without explanatory remarks marks the poster as dishonorable or disingenuous. In legal terms, it might even be libel or slander, depending on the mode of communication.

BTW, English isn't my mother tongue either, but TopGun's remarks speak for themselves and categorize him as a troll, at best.
maybee you could show him how good your Russian is as he can speak/ type better English than most of can Russian.

i hope both him and denis can get along as its nice to see these engines and hear memories recalled!!
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Old 06-03-2003, 08:52 PM   #1432
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twin and triple plug heads became popular when we all thought that the burn rate was to slow in the big displacement engines. It was a common assumption that the fuel could not burn fast enough to get 90's to turn above 26000. This was later proved to be a fallacy. it was proven scientifically that full burn occured some 40 degrees before the exhaust port opened at 180 exhaust timing. Alot of work has been done in this area by a great many knowlegable people but the mystery still remains to some extent.

Twin plugs sure looked cool though, but it made it real expensive to run them. Triples just became ludricris.

Picture it, a twin 90 hydro with 4 plugs. change em every run. 4 rounds a day plus practice.

Most of these car guys cant fathom 16 plugs (street price thats 60 to 70 bucks) a day and two 30 dollar gallons of fuel just to run one of their toys. And most of the guys ran several classes. Kinda puts boat racing in perspective don't it.

I used to buy plugs 400 at a time. good thing we werent paying street price.
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Old 06-03-2003, 09:22 PM   #1433
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Quote:
Originally posted by Motorman
twin and triple plug heads became popular when we all thought that the burn rate was to slow in the big displacement engines. It was a common assumption that the fuel could not burn fast enough to get 90's to turn above 26000. This was later proved to be a fallacy. it was proven scientifically that full burn occured some 40 degrees before the exhaust port opened at 180 exhaust timing. Alot of work has been done in this area by a great many knowlegable people but the mystery still remains to some extent.

Twin plugs sure looked cool though, but it made it real expensive to run them. Triples just became ludricris.

Picture it, a twin 90 hydro with 4 plugs. change em every run. 4 rounds a day plus practice.

Most of these car guys cant fathom 16 plugs (street price thats 60 to 70 bucks) a day and two 30 dollar gallons of fuel just to run one of their toys. And most of the guys ran several classes. Kinda puts boat racing in perspective don't it.

I used to buy plugs 400 at a time. good thing we werent paying street price.
Motorman, what kind of material was used for filament on that plugs? We use 80% platinum, 20% Irriduim. I have never faced problem with fuel doesn't burn fast enough at any RPM, but it was on 60's and there was no nitro on the blend.
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Old 06-04-2003, 02:26 AM   #1434
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Default O'Donnell glow plugs

Which O'Donnell glow plug is best suited for 30% nitro non-turbo .12 engines? How do thee compare to the McCoy 8 or 9's?

Thanks
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Old 06-04-2003, 09:25 AM   #1435
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Very cool!

Thanks Motorman!
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Old 06-04-2003, 10:05 AM   #1436
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Quote:
Originally posted by Motorman
twin and triple plug heads became popular when we all thought that the burn rate was to slow in the big displacement engines. It was a common assumption that the fuel could not burn fast enough to get 90's to turn above 26000. This was later proved to be a fallacy. it was proven scientifically that full burn occured some 40 degrees before the exhaust port opened at 180 exhaust timing. Alot of work has been done in this area by a great many knowlegable people but the mystery still remains to some extent.
Motorman, can you tell me please, what was a main reason if inserting more plugs (to increase burning process)-increase quantity of hot filaments or increase quantity of catalist material (platinum in case of methanol combustion process is a catalist material). We did some experiments with increasing area covering by catalist material-we attached extra wire on the combastion head, even on the end of the project, we were able to coated combustion head by thin layer of platinum-it was no any gain and we stop on that. We found out, the quantity of platinum containing in filament, was more then enough to catalist effect happened and more quantity doesn't change anything. It was done by many different engine's guys, but I have never heard anybody got some out of it.
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Old 06-04-2003, 12:53 PM   #1437
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Sorry if it seems like I'm butting in on this, and if I am wrong someone correct me so that other people dont' go off with the wrong info.

In the chamber the fuel/air mixture isn't constant, there are spots that are richer and leaner than the mixture that is coming from the carb. You know that an engine that is too rich or too lean will be slow. So that can mean it takes longer for the fuel to ignite since the mixture is inconsistent which can retard your ignition timing. Fuel takes a certain period of time to ignite or burn, so when running at higher rpm your piston is moving faster and the factor in the time it takes for the fuel to ignite means that it's igniting later in the cycle and your timing is retarded. So when running on track at higher rpm's advancing your ignition timing fixes that, i.e. hotter plug. Take the 2 of those and it can keep the engine from climbing rpm's if the fuel is igniting too late in it's rotation, hence the 2nd plug to help promote ignition timing to happen when it's supposed to. Like what was said earlier it's more of a problem with bigger bore engines.

Last edited by SlobbaTech; 06-04-2003 at 01:00 PM.
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Old 06-04-2003, 01:03 PM   #1438
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That is why the top fuel engines have dual plugs, since Nitro is so slow burning and there are such high pressures inside those engines a single plug would literally just be blown out like a candle.
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Old 06-04-2003, 02:17 PM   #1439
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Default Dennis,

are you aware of any performance differences between a TOP TT12 S1 and a Nova Rossi RS12 S1?

I would asume that they are the same engines with different badges but I thought I rather check with the MAN

Thank you
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Old 06-04-2003, 05:41 PM   #1440
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Dennis,

If you don't mind answering this do you think that if you have a crank in a bearing with the heavy end at 9 o'clock and the pin for the rod at 3 o'clock with the rod and piston hanging is that a good way to tell if the piston needs to be lightened until the piston doesn't rotate the pin part of the crank down or is there a better way to tel if it's balanced or not? Also does the friction from the piston/sleeve factor in meaning the piston might need to be lighter? Thanks!
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