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Old 12-11-2002, 08:01 PM   #1006
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Read the first and second page of the Smeltz thread. Dennis clearly states that Smeltz copied his work and Smeltz concurred that he had along with several others.
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Old 12-11-2002, 08:05 PM   #1007
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Quote:
Originally posted by modellor
Read the first and second page of the Smeltz thread. Dennis clearly states that Smeltz copied his work and Smeltz concurred that he had along with several others.
that is unfair to motorman. he didnt get any copyright fee at all and he didnt get credit to the charity donation if smell did that.
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Old 12-11-2002, 08:14 PM   #1008
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lovethehobby
It's unfortunate that someone that's been in the hobby for a while says things like you did. I haven't read any of the motor modifyers talk bad about each other. They are providing a service for those that don't do their own motors or don't have someone to do it for them. It costs money for the tools and time to modify a motor and so they should get what they just deserve. You don't know what these people do with the money and I guarantee you they are not getting rich form it. Do you know for a fact that Smeltz is just bringing in the cash and not giving back? He could be donating it to some worthwhile charity. They all do a great job and are not ripping anybody off. Thanks to you all of you doing your part to enhance the hobby!
You show me where Smeltz posts detailed technical information in this thread. Motorman shares much info, nothing comes from Smeltz. Smeltz admits to copying. Get your facts right.

My principles say support Dennis and not Smeltz. Perhaps yours do not.

Last edited by AMGRacer; 12-11-2002 at 08:26 PM.
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Old 12-11-2002, 08:17 PM   #1009
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lovethehobby
I haven't read any of the motor modifyers talk bad about each other. They are providing a service for those that don't do their own motors or don't have someone to do it for them. It costs money for the tools and time to modify a motor and so they should get what they just deserve.
I never said Smeltz did a bad job, or should not charge for his "service". Dennis sure seemed cranky when I showed him pictures of Smeltz copied engines, but he is too nice a guy to start a slanging war. Read the first few pages at least before posting!

Dennis like a true professional steps up to the plate and produces a NEW design even better.
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Old 12-11-2002, 08:23 PM   #1010
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Spoke like a true professional.

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Old 12-11-2002, 11:54 PM   #1011
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Not to start a flame war or anything close to that. But i heard you were quitting rc for school?...
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Old 12-12-2002, 01:02 AM   #1012
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I've read this post from the start. I'm not defending anybody or saying I support anybody. Everybody takes ideas from everybody. Each modifier has his/her own unique ideas but the basics are the same. I've been modifying motors for quite a few year now and have gotten ideas from boaters and tether racers. Most of what I saw from Smeltz's first photos (copies of Motorman as it is refered to) weren't new to my eyes. But the timing can't be shown in the photos and that's what makes the knowledge hard to copy. Timing in the motor is a large part of the power. Too much or too little makes a big difference. I don't think any modifier has copyrights on any modification. Look at the Kyosho VOneR. Do you think that Trinity should give Kyosho something for putting out a car that looks almost exactly like it or vice versa? Who was first? Both look alike but don't perform the same. Do you hear them bitching about it? All I'm saying is enjoy the hobby. I didn't mean to offend anybody. I've seen both motors run and they both run great. I've seen motors here run faster than them also. Speed doesn't always win...it just helps. The best motor or car is the one that won the last race. Usually it was attached to the best driver.
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Old 12-12-2002, 10:12 AM   #1013
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lovethehobby
But the timing can't be shown in the photos and that's what makes the knowledge hard to copy.
I agree with what your saying. Its like real motor racing. If you are given a set of rules to follow all the cars look identical because that particular design works best. But the issue here is that Smeltz bought an engine of Motorman and used it to produce his own version. Now, in my eyes that is pure copying without originality.
All we are saying is that we would rather support Motorman because he puts in all the effort to provide top notch motors without blatantly copying. So unless Motorman has been lying (which I doubt) to everyone you can even read a report on rcnitro.com regarding his work and how he really learnt the art.
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Old 12-12-2002, 12:03 PM   #1014
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Lets leave this "who copies who" topic alone. From my understanding, whether any product, you can't beat the original! This is why I have a Richey RTU myself.

Support who you want whether it is Richey or SMELTZ. Smeltz seems to have some happy customers so lets leave it at that. Even though the designs aren't 100% his, he has at least some knowledge regarding engine modifying and tuning.

If anyone remembers Larry aka "LittoDeviL" case a while back, you would have remembered that this kid copied Richey's engine based on pictures alone and not only that, did a piss-poor job too while charging people money. This led to a disaster because the engines ran like doo doo. If I were to copy Dennis, I would at least blue printed the motor and get a timing wheel, etc. But I'm too lazy for that so I bought one.
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Old 12-12-2002, 04:25 PM   #1015
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All I have to say is "Dennis get those new motors out"
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Old 12-12-2002, 10:13 PM   #1016
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dan

If anyone remembers Larry aka "LittoDeviL" case a while back, you would have remembered that this kid copied Richey's engine based on pictures alone and not only that, did a piss-poor job too while charging people money. This led to a disaster because the engines ran like doo doo. If I were to copy Dennis, I would at least blue printed the motor and get a timing wheel, etc. But I'm too lazy for that so I bought one.
True and lets say.. he went a little bit overboard with them "claw" marks...
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Old 12-12-2002, 10:26 PM   #1017
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lovethehobby
I've read this post from the start. I'm not defending anybody or saying I support anybody. Everybody takes ideas from everybody. Each modifier has his/her own unique ideas but the basics are the same. I've been modifying motors for quite a few year now and have gotten ideas from boaters and tether racers. Most of what I saw from Smeltz's first photos (copies of Motorman as it is refered to) weren't new to my eyes. But the timing can't be shown in the photos and that's what makes the knowledge hard to copy. Timing in the motor is a large part of the power. Too much or too little makes a big difference. I don't think any modifier has copyrights on any modification. Look at the Kyosho VOneR. Do you think that Trinity should give Kyosho something for putting out a car that looks almost exactly like it or vice versa? Who was first? Both look alike but don't perform the same. Do you hear them bitching about it? All I'm saying is enjoy the hobby. I didn't mean to offend anybody. I've seen both motors run and they both run great. I've seen motors here run faster than them also. Speed doesn't always win...it just helps. The best motor or car is the one that won the last race. Usually it was attached to the best driver.
awesome post man. Very neutral and informative. Richey himself probably doesn't claim that all his knowledge has been 100% original discovery, as most tuners I've emailed or talked to say the boaters passed a lot of stuff down.

I personally got turned off by smeltz when he claimed to be doing it for the racers and then jacked his prices up higher than even richey's were (has since dropped them though), but that's me. No reason for anyone to not buy his engines or to not buy richey's or anyone else's because of design similarities to other tuners. Would I rather have a richey than a smeltz? Yeah. Is richey the first or only guy out there making very fast motors? Do I have to answer that?
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Old 12-13-2002, 07:19 AM   #1018
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How in the hell can you support someone who is not even making the the Engines. He said he is only making a few.
Lets see, basic business.
Supply and Demand. You want the product, You get it where you can.
Richey is not doing engines( not motors, by the way). He said not till this spring, and in limited supply. On ebay, lets see who in it for the Money.
I have heard nothing but good things from Smetlz about Dennis. And all you guys can do is Dog him. Personally- i have a Smeltz. So what. You know why? Cause you can't get a Richey. I get incredible turn-around from him I sent my Engine out and got it back in less then a week. There is something to say about that.

For any of you who know Cars or anything else. Everyone copies the best thing out there and tries to make it a little better. Not really sure but that seem to say that someone thinks someone knows what they are doing. Lets see the New Mugen Truck sure seems to be a Losi. The new B4 sure looks alot like the XXX losi car.

This thread is about questions for Richey. Lets keep it at that.

Enjoy the Hobby and Buy what you want.
It does not matter how fast you are on the Straight. The race is not won there. ask anyone that. If you think so then you got a lot to learn.

Don't forget - these are toy cars.

Petella - No offense to Richey. Because of him, I would not have the Engine i have now. Thanks. But I know one person on this Thread that has sent Richey numerous E-mails for over a year and not has Recieved one back. That sure made me want to get one. Like you said-no reason to buy one over the other. But I will get what I can when I can.
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Old 12-13-2002, 07:33 AM   #1019
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Old 12-13-2002, 07:42 AM   #1020
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