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Old 02-05-2003, 03:57 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally posted by Boomer
Ummm, we're talking about nitro cars here. Nitro cars use al. chassis'.

Nitro cars have a lot of oil and dirt and sometimes rocks get in them because we have to run outside (although I've heard of indoor tracks. . .) just like the off-road guys. Most off-road tracks around here don't have much bigger rocks in them than you would find around the edges of an on-road track (like Rev). . . I pick up little rocks all the time in my spur and pinion gears - I used to pick them up in the belts of my GT-4.

The conditions of an 1/8th buggy are harder than we get (off-road is harder on drivetrains which is why 1/10th uses slippers and we don't), but the point remains - we use a shaft just like the hardest class on drive-trains do. If a shaft won't hold up, why do they use TWO of them? (and they can seal a drive-train. so why don't they do it?)
Shaft drive is durable in an environment where there are a lot of debris. I have ruined around 2 pulleys and no belts in 2 years of onroad asphalt racing, so I guess my track is pretty clean comparitively. So I really have no drivetrain preference either way on my tracks.

There are two things I dont like about shaft drive however. Firstly the drivetrain is very rigid making on power wall impacts dangerous. Secondly the design of a ring and pinion drivetrain inheriently is self destructive. Ie the pinion is always trying to push itself away from the crown gear putting a lot of sideload on the gearbox housings and the bearings.

This being said it can be made to work nicely, but the above design elements need to be considered.
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Old 02-05-2003, 04:29 PM   #92
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I understand what your saying Boomer about the debris etc but you got to take into account that the majority of pro racers are designed in either Europe or Asia and in these two areas most clubs use proper prepared race tracks and you will never find a loose stone laying unless someone threw it onto the track.

Thats the major difference and why the America hobby shops can bullshit you guys into believing Shaft Drive is better.
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Old 02-05-2003, 06:17 PM   #93
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Boomer, I never said a shaft can't hold up. Im an off road racer, racing 1/10 gas truck and 1/8 buggy, but recently picked up my first onroad car of any kind. Like Modellor said, belts won't hold up in an 1/8 buggy because of the harsh enviorment it is raced on. Also with off road cars there are alot of flex involved(more flex=better handling in the rough's), belts would skip and rip when the chassis flex's. Shafts are the only way to go in nitro off-road. On road is a different story. But like I said, both cars are VERY good. It's all about the driver that is driving the car.
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Old 02-05-2003, 07:49 PM   #94
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I dont want to get into the argument of weather ball diffs are better or gear diffs are better, Im just going to post my views. I had the GT4 for about 6 months before I got the NTC3, so I was used to gears diffs. For me it was a chore taking the diffs apart, cleaning them and filling them up with luve and putting them back together. On the other hand, I can take apart and rebuild the ball diffs on the NTC3 in about 1 hour. Both diffs have to be maintained no matter what, the gear diffs dont get gritty because of dirt, the luve just gets thin. The ball diffs work, in my opinion, because on the NTC3 the case is sealed pretty good, stoping dirt from getting to it.

I never had a problem with the ball diffs getting loose, neither have my buddies who 90% of them have NTC3s, and we run them every weekend saturday and sunday. Also I rebuild my diffs for the first time 3 months after I got the car.

Just my 2 cents

Thanks,

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Old 02-05-2003, 07:56 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally posted by modellor
The Off-Road also needs to be sealed like Initial D mentioned but the main fact is that with all the jumps and bumps the belts would get thrown off.
Some corrections modellor... Bryan N mentioned about it. Not me.
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Old 02-05-2003, 07:58 PM   #96
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Thanks Initial D. Far too many names to try and remember when replying to posts. lol
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Old 02-05-2003, 08:00 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally posted by Boomer
I pick up little rocks all the time in my spur and pinion gears - I used to pick them up in the belts of my GT-4.
Ummm, this is what I observe on the NTC3s that people are driving... Somehow, the small pebbles will get to your spurs and pinion even though you're driving shaft. I find that it's strange that normal belted cars rarely find pebbles in their pinions and spurs. At least this is the case for me. Not so much as finding pebbles in the spurs which is also rare nowadays

So lesson is not to drive on dirty tracks EVEN though you're on shaft drive.
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Old 02-05-2003, 11:27 PM   #98
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Well, as for dirty surfaces, I don't think that anyone would call Revelation dirty, but there are particles of stuff on there. It's outdoor and in an industrial area. So is Camarillo and Hot Rod's (used to be). I'm not talking about boulders, but small (1/16"-ish) gritty rocks and sand and crap. This stuff can chew up gears, pullies and belts. It did on mine, moreso on my GT4.

What I'm talking about with belt vs. shaft in 1/8th is that, in any off-road racing, you have a lot of on-power, freewheel (in the air), on power again which wreaks havoc with any drivetrain. It doesn't matter how well you land, that progression is still there. Belts just don't do well in that environment. They slip teeth, stretch, etc. Shafts are a problem too, which is why most (if not all) off-road drivetrains include some kind of slipper-clutch in them to relieve that stress.

I'm actually quite surprised that no competitive 1/8th onroad car is using a shaft. It is, inherently, far more efficient a drivetrain than is a belt. And to say that it can't handle the power is just not borne out when you look at the abusive poweron-freewheel-poweron that 1/8th buggies go through and look at what drivetrain that Traxxas used - not because it is efficient but because it is bombproof - shaft.

I rarely ever listen to the people who are behind the counter at hobby shops. I've listened to far too many of them sell somebody crap saying it'll make them faster or whatever. This at not one, but at least four hobby shops in SoCal. Please don't think I'm one of those. I walk into a hobby shop, give part number and pay and walk out.
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Old 02-05-2003, 11:28 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally posted by InitialD
Ummm, this is what I observe on the NTC3s that people are driving... Somehow, the small pebbles will get to your spurs and pinion even though you're driving shaft. I find that it's strange that normal belted cars rarely find pebbles in their pinions and spurs. At least this is the case for me. Not so much as finding pebbles in the spurs which is also rare nowadays

So lesson is not to drive on dirty tracks EVEN though you're on shaft drive.
I do try to drive on clean tracks - Revelation, Camarillo, etc. But being outside is dirty! Of course, that's partly why I LIKE being outside!
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Old 02-06-2003, 12:01 AM   #100
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Wow, 4 hobby shops around here sales crap and tell people that it makes the car faster?
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Old 02-06-2003, 12:52 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bryan N.
Wow, 4 hobby shops around here sales crap and tell people that it makes the car faster?
Do you work at Elite?
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Old 02-06-2003, 06:50 PM   #102
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Boomer- Yes I do. Have you been to the shop?
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Old 02-07-2003, 06:15 AM   #103
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Hey guys, maybe I missed it, but when was this thing supposed to hit the shelves? I want to check one out.
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Old 02-07-2003, 07:06 AM   #104
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In RTR kit form, it is scheduled for release at the end of this month.

I have heard the 'Pro' kit version will be late June.
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Old 02-07-2003, 01:22 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bryan N.
Boomer- Yes I do. Have you been to the shop?
Several times.

And do you know Mario? A customer? Bald, heavy set. . .
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