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Old 08-02-2006, 05:09 AM   #61
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Hi All,
For those interested.......
Initial testing on Protoform Mazda 6 & Stratus 3.1 has shown that there is only marginal differences.

Front C-l rear C-l C-d
Mazda 6 +0.1 -0.1 0.4
Stratus 3.1 0 -0.15 0.39

Where C-l is Lift co-efficient and C-d is drag. Hence a + lift is actual "lift" and negative is downforce.
The results show that at present I'm unable to offer the degree of accuracy I would like so some change in equipment will take place before more testing.

Tony
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Old 08-02-2006, 06:38 AM   #62
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Ok so I want to be sure im correct here. Your saying that bodies are making the chassis handle worse in the sense that they are applying the opposite of downforce , but lift?

A quick question. What kind of window cuts are on these vehicles? Are they run on a chassis? Body clips on?
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Old 08-02-2006, 09:24 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by British Menace
Hi All,
For those interested.......
Initial testing on Protoform Mazda 6 & Stratus 3.1 has shown that there is only marginal differences.

Front C-l rear C-l C-d
Mazda 6 +0.1 -0.1 0.4
Stratus 3.1 0 -0.15 0.39

Where C-l is Lift co-efficient and C-d is drag. Hence a + lift is actual "lift" and negative is downforce.
The results show that at present I'm unable to offer the degree of accuracy I would like so some change in equipment will take place before more testing.

Tony
So thats why touring shells handle like a bag of shite compared to Lolas. Is there any touring shell that will give downforce?
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Old 08-02-2006, 07:12 PM   #64
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all i know is that when i run a car without a body it runs like durt,then with a body it works great and the mazda 3 blitz i fined very good but id like to try the M body
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Old 08-03-2006, 05:10 PM   #65
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Default Hi Again.....

I'm sorry I'm not able to get back to you sooner..... the down side of having to be on a borrowed pc??!!!
Anyway.... Yes, the down side is that most touring car bodies will give, at best, a neutral (Zero C-l). That is without rear wing.

And yes, that is why the outlaw bodies, with thire 'Shovel' type bodies will give more downforce than your touring cars.

wallyedmonds.... you are right. It should handle better with a body on. The reason is actually more down to streamlining than from actual 'downforce'.

Actually, the manufacturers, at least of the bodies I've tested thus far, have done well to get the C-l near zero! This is very hard to accomplish, even on full size cars, without some quite considerable work. It is usually a +C-l on a Sedan.

The bodies were tested on a chassis, with body clips on and holes made as per ROAR gas rules. Interestingly enough, the pins are very inportant !
The only thing I did not do was cut out any side windows. This would actually only help relative to aerodynamics.
There's lots more I want to do on this subject and I hope to have more for those interested soon...ok.

Tony
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Old 08-03-2006, 05:18 PM   #66
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Default Your own experiment....

Just a quicky..... So to speak. Lol

Try putting a VERY well fitting body , one that just slips straight on to your chassis. Then run your car as normal. Then bring the car in and just take the body pins out! That's all. Just take all your body pins off, then run your car again.

What happens? ..
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Old 08-03-2006, 06:13 PM   #67
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I'm tried recently the Mazda 3 from Blitz, very good handling, also very cheap, I bought 5 assorted bodies for 60 bucks, they are stronger than a protoform, I'm pretty sure about it because I have always used the 3.1 Stratus from protoform, but now I'm only using Blitz.
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Body !!! What's the best ?-mazda3-1%5B1%5D.jpg   Body !!! What's the best ?-mazda3-2%5B1%5D.jpg   Body !!! What's the best ?-mazda3-3%5B1%5D.jpg  
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Old 08-03-2006, 06:15 PM   #68
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Also they have a 3rd wing stand
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Old 08-03-2006, 08:08 PM   #69
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this is cool what your doing,keep going
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Old 08-03-2006, 10:09 PM   #70
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Hi guys, I decided to get a page setup with a few of the bodies listed on this page. You can add more bodies to the database or post a review for the ones already up.

http://www.pro-hobby.net/review/showcat.php?cat=7
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Old 08-04-2006, 10:22 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by British Menace
I'm sorry I'm not able to get back to you sooner..... the down side of having to be on a borrowed pc??!!!
Anyway.... Yes, the down side is that most touring car bodies will give, at best, a neutral (Zero C-l). That is without rear wing.

And yes, that is why the outlaw bodies, with thire 'Shovel' type bodies will give more downforce than your touring cars.

wallyedmonds.... you are right. It should handle better with a body on. The reason is actually more down to streamlining than from actual 'downforce'.

Actually, the manufacturers, at least of the bodies I've tested thus far, have done well to get the C-l near zero! This is very hard to accomplish, even on full size cars, without some quite considerable work. It is usually a +C-l on a Sedan.

The bodies were tested on a chassis, with body clips on and holes made as per ROAR gas rules. Interestingly enough, the pins are very inportant !
The only thing I did not do was cut out any side windows. This would actually only help relative to aerodynamics.
There's lots more I want to do on this subject and I hope to have more for those interested soon...ok.

Tony
What ground clearance are you running? does that make a difference?

I would have thought if you reduce the amount of air under the car you would get more downforce as the whole shell acts like a wing where the air over the top of the body has to travel further and so produce a low pressure regime and lift the car. If you eliminate the airflow under the car it will turn into downforce
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Old 08-04-2006, 11:37 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ziggy12345
What ground clearance are you running? does that make a difference?

I would have thought if you reduce the amount of air under the car you would get more downforce as the whole shell acts like a wing where the air over the top of the body has to travel further and so produce a low pressure regime and lift the car. If you eliminate the airflow under the car it will turn into downforce
i found that because my mazda6 had lost the lower 5mm of the front bumper(due to my superb driving style ) the air was getting under and making the car understeer at the original height i used when it was a new body(4mm off the ground).
by dropping the front down 1 hole on the body post for the final, this gave back the steering that was missing to my car.
so the less air getting under the car the better!
took me most of the day to figure it out though
allways the last thing that i try
i'm amazed at how many guys at our club run the front of their bodies above the bottom of the bumper and chassis and wonder why their car is having handling problems
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Old 08-04-2006, 11:54 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ziggy12345
I would have thought if you reduce the amount of air under the car you would get more downforce as the whole shell acts like a wing where the air over the top of the body has to travel further and so produce a low pressure regime and lift the car. If you eliminate the airflow under the car it will turn into downforce
i think maybe the effect of lift (as on the wings of an airplane) is insignificant in this case because the bottom of the car is not a continuous, solid surface; there are lots of big voids, especially on the bottom surface. also the fact that the trailing edges of the top and bottom surface do not end at the same line also makes the lift effect less prominent.

but as long as a body works good, i don't really care why, i will leave that to the manufacturer.
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Old 08-04-2006, 12:20 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itchy b
i found that because my mazda6 had lost the lower 5mm of the front bumper(due to my superb driving style ) the air was getting under and making the car understeer at the original height i used when it was a new body(4mm off the ground).
by dropping the front down 1 hole on the body post for the final, this gave back the steering that was missing to my car.
so the less air getting under the car the better!
took me most of the day to figure it out though
allways the last thing that i try
i'm amazed at how many guys at our club run the front of their bodies above the bottom of the bumper and chassis and wonder why their car is having handling problems
That's a really good point, I never thought about that!!
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Old 08-04-2006, 11:01 PM   #75
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Default Hey All

What Itchy b says is very interesting and so very true.
Notice that the chassis ride hight was not altered... but the body itself !

What hapened was that by reducing the hight of the front of the body, it became what is called an 'Air Dam'. And as itchy b and Ziggy rightly say, you are then reducing the amount of air able to get under the car, creating a low pressure area...in comparison to above the body, and actual down force is then a posibility.
Run the front of the car as low as possible without it touching under racing conditions on the track you are at. Do not alter your ride hight of the chassis to acheive this, do as itchy b did and alter the position of the body on the body mounts.

This is an area of great interest to me and something I want to get to in testing but the nead for a rolling road in order to do it properly stops me at the moment.
There will unfortunately I feel, other than this 'Air Dam' idea, be little to gain from ground effect for r/c use. Without magor mods........ not legal I think with ROAR. Lol

Good thread guys. I will try to get more actual info' of use to all for you.

Tony
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