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Old 04-19-2006, 01:42 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M7H
Here you can see the difference between a C2 and a C3 clutch.....
It also tells you how to set it up properly.....
http://www.mytsn.com/publ/publ.asp?pid=10534
Thanks alot everyone really good stuff here............glad I joined.
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Old 04-19-2006, 03:06 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris West
you can use a normal bearing thats the same size.

Not to get to involved here, but i also did the same thing for a "short term" fix on my serpent... I know it was wrong but got me through the day...
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Old 04-19-2006, 04:01 PM   #18
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ok then ill stop posting if it makes all of you happy

but i didnt notice any difference in performance when i did this
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Old 04-19-2006, 04:40 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris West
oh and by the way I do know how to set up a clutch
I dont think you do. THe standard bearing does work fine but it isnt perfect.

A thrust bearing is designed to take up the lateral forces of something pushing out on it yet allow 2 separate components to rotate free of each other. A standard bearing is designed to work on centrifugal forces.

A standard bearing will distort under the pressure and start to cause friction that the thrust bearing doesnt. Therefore, your clutch isnt 100% effective and it shows that you dont know exactly what you are doing.
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Old 04-19-2006, 06:49 PM   #20
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Chris:

Is not that if you stop posting will make us happy, is just that it wasn't 100% correct what you said, and some other like me corrected your info. When I started few years ago on this, I also though that some fixes are the perfect one, but they aren't know that I work very close with serpent and mugen and have pretty close communication with peolple that design cars, is that I noticed all the mistakes I been doing in the past. So just use this tread to learm more and don't fight, PEACE!!!!

Sorry for my english, but is my second language
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Old 04-19-2006, 06:55 PM   #21
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Very true there are many 'quick fixes' in this hobby but when you are starting out you might as well learn the right way.
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Old 04-19-2006, 07:13 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subman
Very true there are many 'quick fixes' in this hobby but when you are starting out you might as well learn the right way.
exactly, it also pays to have a spare thrust bearing or two in the kit
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Old 05-25-2006, 06:26 PM   #23
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I have had so many discussions about this subject. I am an experienced racer and have had some thrust bearing issues. Don't go into techy talk and saying I am doing something wrong, I know very well how to set up a clutch(centax) however it comes down to trust for me. I know some of my fellow racers have never had an issue with a thrust bearing blow but I have and when it does kiss your racer over.

I have experimented with different alternative methods for ensuring and bullet proofing my drivetrain for a 1hr main, and I am sorry for all you thrust bearing fanatics but I have no faith or trust in the thrust bearing.

Curently I am using a high end bearing that was rubber sealed, I take the rubber seals out and pack it with Tamiya anti-wear grease. I then use a shim the size of the smaller metal bearing ring on 1 side of the bearing and a side from a thrust bearing with the grooves placed towards the regular bearing(I very carefully dremmeled down and made sure it was smooth! the inner part of the thrust bearing plate so that it did not touch the smaller bearing ring and made direct contact with the larger bearing ring(i made sure to properly lube everything)

This is my fix and since I have built I have never had any problems and felt 100% confident in my clucth for not just a 1hr main but entire race weekend or longer, I have done over 10 race weekends and when I take everything apart everything is just the way I first ran it.

Morgan
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Old 05-25-2006, 06:55 PM   #24
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We use the serpent ceramic thrust bearing in our cluthches and have no issues for the 6 months that they have been in our cars. We make sure they get greased every race with our thrust bearing grease and have not had a problem at all.
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Old 05-25-2006, 07:40 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morgan Johns
I have had so many discussions about this subject. I am an experienced racer and have had some thrust bearing issues. Don't go into techy talk and saying I am doing something wrong, I know very well how to set up a clutch(centax) however it comes down to trust for me. I know some of my fellow racers have never had an issue with a thrust bearing blow but I have and when it does kiss your racer over.

I have experimented with different alternative methods for ensuring and bullet proofing my drivetrain for a 1hr main, and I am sorry for all you thrust bearing fanatics but I have no faith or trust in the thrust bearing.

Curently I am using a high end bearing that was rubber sealed, I take the rubber seals out and pack it with Tamiya anti-wear grease. I then use a shim the size of the smaller metal bearing ring on 1 side of the bearing and a side from a thrust bearing with the grooves placed towards the regular bearing(I very carefully dremmeled down and made sure it was smooth! the inner part of the thrust bearing plate so that it did not touch the smaller bearing ring and made direct contact with the larger bearing ring(i made sure to properly lube everything)

This is my fix and since I have built I have never had any problems and felt 100% confident in my clucth for not just a 1hr main but entire race weekend or longer, I have done over 10 race weekends and when I take everything apart everything is just the way I first ran it.

Morgan
Effectively, all you have down is made a thrust bearing from a standard bearing. Doing it this way will work fine as you have changed the direction of the forces being placed on the bearing.
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Old 05-25-2006, 07:45 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richey
We use the serpent ceramic thrust bearing in our cluthches and have no issues for the 6 months that they have been in our cars. We make sure they get greased every race with our thrust bearing grease and have not had a problem at all.
I use something a little different. I found that the black polishing grease from a dremel set works very well. I had the same problem as Morgan and it didnt matter what type of thrust bearing I tried it wouldnt last a day. Each one always had debris in it regardless of the grease I used. I had the dremel polishing grease sitting in my toolbox and thought it was worth a try. I ran that one thrust bearing since 2004.

This stuff is really thick and sticks to the bearing. Regardless of the weather it never needs more being added during a meeting unlike the proper thrust bearing greases and I have never found any dirt in the bearing yet.
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Old 05-25-2006, 07:56 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Palmaris Europe
Effectively, all you have down is made a thrust bearing from a standard bearing. Doing it this way will work fine as you have changed the direction of the forces being placed on the bearing.
Your right, except the minor differences, the trust bearing is compised of 3 seperate peices that rely on eachother to function. I know what I have done is effectively added more pecies(5) that need to work together to create the same effect.

However since the regular bearing does not work off of thrust / pressure (This may not come out right) to function but relys on the rotational functionality no pressure is put on the actual ball bearings and their housing, as all blown thrust bearings are due to a failure in this structure.

Please do not make an arguement out of this reply as I am not saying that a thrust bearing is better or worse then my fix I have found, both options work, as I mentioned most people I have discussed this with have been using the same thrust bearing for seasons, "I" just feel more comfortable with the what I have come up with.

By all means for eveyone try it out!!! it takes about 10mins to make and u alredy have the thrust bearing plate just need the right shims which are the gap play shims.

Morgan
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