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Old 08-01-2006, 05:28 AM   #871
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Originally Posted by Julius
This is where I disagree with the users of setup systems. The toe-measurements are not precise at all. Set the toe on a setup system and then put a ruler along the wheels and measure against the front wheel (when setting rear toe). You'll often find large differences.
Why are they not? The measuring blocks are screwed on in place of the wheels and the 'ruler' used is always exactly perpendicular to the length of the car.
It would seem to me that using a ruler would be less accurate because of some play in the suspension, rims not being exactly straight and depending and because of the steering of the front wheels, the back of the wheel may also differ a mm or two...

How do you set toe-out without a setup system?
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Old 08-01-2006, 06:12 AM   #872
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The problem with the setup systems is that the angles you are measuring is quite small. And you want a high degree of accuracy. Especially in toe measurments you'd like to have 0.5 degrees of accuracy.

Most setup stations are about 50mm length where they measure toe angles. With a ruler you have about 200mm of length. So although you need to make sure the wheels are not bent (which is why I use some rims without tires on them when I want to be really accurate) and try to find the middle of the suspension play, you can be more precise with a ruler.

Be aware that suspension play is a factor with a setup station too.

For me an absolute toe-in value is less important then knowing both sides are equal. I'll have my pitman change the setting often during practice in the pit, and then take the average and set both sides to that value when I fine tune the setup later.
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Old 08-01-2006, 06:26 AM   #873
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius
The problem with the setup systems is that the angles you are measuring is quite small. And you want a high degree of accuracy. Especially in toe measurments you'd like to have 0.5 degrees of accuracy.

Most setup stations are about 50mm length where they measure toe angles. With a ruler you have about 200mm of length. So although you need to make sure the wheels are not bent (which is why I use some rims without tires on them when I want to be really accurate) and try to find the middle of the suspension play, you can be more precise with a ruler.

Be aware that suspension play is a factor with a setup station too.

For me an absolute toe-in value is less important then knowing both sides are equal. I'll have my pitman change the setting often during practice in the pit, and then take the average and set both sides to that value when I fine tune the setup later.
Whilst I would never part with my Hudy setup system I can see your point of view.

I asked a question here on the initial setting of the 2 speed clutch a couple of days ago and would appreciate it if you clarify how I should set it . I tried several settings and can not hear or see the clutch engaging although none of my tests where with the car on the track.
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Old 08-01-2006, 06:34 AM   #874
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B4
Whilst I would never part with my Hudy setup system I can see your point of view.

I asked a question here on the initial setting of the 2 speed clutch a couple of days ago and would appreciate it if you clarify how I should set it . I tried several settings and can not hear or see the clutch engaging although none of my tests where with the car on the track.
It is difficult to hear without the car actually running. The stock setting should be in the ballpark. Best way is with the car running. If it doesn't shif you'll need to find out if it is stuck in 1st or 2nd. If the car accellerates quickly but reaches very high revs soon after it's stuck in 1st. You'll need to back out the screws with the springs half a turn at a time till it starts shifting. If acceleration is slow but the car accelerates for a long time before it reaches top revs, you're in 2nd. You'll need to tighten half a turn at a time.
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Old 08-01-2006, 06:38 AM   #875
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius
It is difficult to hear without the car actually running. The stock setting should be in the ballpark. Best way is with the car running. If it doesn't shif you'll need to find out if it is stuck in 1st or 2nd. If the car accellerates quickly but reaches very high revs soon after it's stuck in 1st. You'll need to back out the screws with the springs half a turn at a time till it starts shifting. If acceleration is slow but the car accelerates for a long time before it reaches top revs, you're in 2nd. You'll need to tighten half a turn at a time.
Thank you
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Old 08-01-2006, 06:42 AM   #876
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B4
Whilst I would never part with my Hudy setup system I can see your point of view.

I asked a question here on the initial setting of the 2 speed clutch a couple of days ago and would appreciate it if you clarify how I should set it . I tried several settings and can not hear or see the clutch engaging although none of my tests where with the car on the track.
I'm sure your 2-speed feeling problem can be 3 different things.
1.) The 2-speed engages way to early and so you canít feel it. I donít believe you tightened the screws so far that it doesnít shift at all.
2.) The 2 screws for the adjustment of the shifting point are total different, so it will shift very soft and you canít feel this.
3.) Because all is new, the bearing in the 2-speed looses a bit oil witch comes on the clutch-bell. And that makes the shifting very smooth. After a few laps it should be gone.

When you disassemble the 2 speed, look very good at the shoes, you can see if the have touched (shifted in second gear) or not.

Rene
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Old 08-01-2006, 06:51 AM   #877
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rene C.
I'm sure your 2-speed feeling problem can be 3 different things.
1.) The 2-speed engages way to early and so you canít feel it. I donít believe you tightened the screws so far that it doesnít shift at all.
2.) The 2 screws for the adjustment of the shifting point are total different, so it will shift very soft and you canít feel this.
3.) Because all is new, the bearing in the 2-speed looses a bit oil witch comes on the clutch-bell. And that makes the shifting very smooth. After a few laps it should be gone.

When you disassemble the 2 speed, look very good at the shoes, you can see if the have touched (shifted in second gear) or not.

Rene
An excellent explaination, i'm sure you and Julius are right in that it can really only be checked when under load.
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Old 08-01-2006, 08:35 AM   #878
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius
It is difficult to hear without the car actually running. The stock setting should be in the ballpark.
Actually to be honest, I found the stock setting as per manual to be too soft (with the Mega engine in it). I think this is because the manual still asks you to set it like the 710. The internal ratio of the 710 is slightly different to the 720 and I found that when I first fired up the 720, it was engaging to 2nd almost immediately.

B4, like I said, this depends on your engine, tune etc. I had a fully race-tuned engine the first time I went out with the 720 and it was in 2nd right away. This could be your problem. I recommend screwing in say 1 to 1-1/2 turns and then try again revving up slowly. Fine tune on the track after you are sure you're getting 1st gear.

Quote:
Best way is with the car running. If it doesn't shif you'll need to find out if it is stuck in 1st or 2nd. If the car accellerates quickly but reaches very high revs soon after it's stuck in 1st. You'll need to back out the screws with the springs half a turn at a time till it starts shifting. If acceleration is slow but the car accelerates for a long time before it reaches top revs, you're in 2nd. You'll need to tighten half a turn at a time.
Agree.
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Old 08-01-2006, 08:37 AM   #879
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rene C.
...
When you disassemble the 2 speed, look very good at the shoes, you can see if the have touched (shifted in second gear) or not.

Rene
Yup, forgot that detail ... I do the same.
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Old 08-01-2006, 10:29 AM   #880
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"Yes you use the same tyres"

Thanks for the info, I just bought one and should have it in my hands in a couple of days. Also can I use the same Battries as in my V-one RRR WC? ........Boy you folks spell tires funny.

Jim
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Old 08-01-2006, 10:55 AM   #881
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J.Wright
"Yes you use the same tyres"

Thanks for the info, I just bought one and should have it in my hands in a couple of days. Also can I use the same Battries as in my V-one RRR WC? ........Boy you folks spell tires funny.

Jim
Jim,
No, you can't use the receiver battery pack in your RRR for the Serpent 720. 720 uses 5-cell AAA battery pack which looks like this : http://www.mytsn.com/products/product.asp?prid=2808
You should use Lipo battery pack, talk to Nigel about it.

Carl
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Old 08-01-2006, 11:11 AM   #882
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Thanks will do.

Jim
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Old 08-01-2006, 01:48 PM   #883
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B4
An excellent explaination, i'm sure you and Julius are right in that it can really only be checked when under load.
I also had lots of problems with my 720 2 speed. I had to run it on the track and that's when I discovered it was shifting right away. It seemed like the shoes had to be broken in, because I ran the car a few laps while it was shifting early, and after that I tightened the screws about 2 turns (yes, it was that early! ), and then I could hear it in the air and it seemed to shift harder on the track. Before I had run it on the track, no matter which way I went with the screws, I couldn't hear it shift.
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Old 08-01-2006, 09:44 PM   #884
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captian
going to try and be there saturday
have been working O.t
Hey Cap Team Serpent NYC took 1st and 2nd in the ProSpeed Shoot out this past weekend. Mike Mal looked strong in his maiden voyage with the 720. It is really a nice kit. I took 2nd with the old faithful 710 . Thanks to DJ Apalaro's setup tips and great pit work from my brother.
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Old 08-01-2006, 10:02 PM   #885
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Hey KILLA
Mike always felt more comfortable with a serpent
will be testing mine out soon
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