R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Nitro On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 04-25-2009, 12:30 AM   #4861
Tech Elite
 
Pattojnr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Perth Australia
Posts: 4,594
Trader Rating: 19 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Kamikaze View Post
looks Good Sam , but gearhead was trying to use the tool he has. just trying to help him use what he has to get it sorted. but yeah , this tool would work much better.
__________________
Serpent - Walter RC
Serpent E Power ..... Serpent 747 Reds M3T
Serpent 966-TE Reds M7T .... S411ERYX Speedpassion 3.5T, T-Shox
Serpent 811-TE REDs R5T
Pattojnr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2009, 12:39 AM   #4862
Tech Champion
 
Team Kamikaze's Avatar
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: 我的名字是沈先生。我是中国人, 居住美国
Posts: 8,868
Trader Rating: 3 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pattojnr View Post
looks Good Sam , but gearhead was trying to use the tool he has. just trying to help him use what he has to get it sorted. but yeah , this tool would work much better.
The problem with the tool he is trying to use, is that if the trust bearing seats lower than the outer rim of the gear itself, then it won't work, but a caliper can be used, but will more likely give you false readings.
__________________
Home of the Kamikaze Driver's Development Program = guaranteed podium finish
Kamikaze Toys and Hobbies Inc.
Follow us here on Facebook!
Team Kamikaze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2009, 01:13 AM   #4863
Tech Elite
 
Pattojnr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Perth Australia
Posts: 4,594
Trader Rating: 19 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Kamikaze View Post
The problem with the tool he is trying to use, is that if the trust bearing seats lower than the outer rim of the gear itself, then it won't work, but a caliper can be used, but will more likely give you false readings.
agreed, thats why i use digital calipers. but the tool you linked to would be more precise for sure.
__________________
Serpent - Walter RC
Serpent E Power ..... Serpent 747 Reds M3T
Serpent 966-TE Reds M7T .... S411ERYX Speedpassion 3.5T, T-Shox
Serpent 811-TE REDs R5T
Pattojnr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2009, 07:43 AM   #4864
Tech Master
 
DS Motorsport's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 1,440
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

When setting the gap with a wc clutch set you leave the first gear pinion off the clutchbell, this way the tool slides right in. When you're done setting the gap, put first gear on and set the endplay.

Btw i allways let one small bearing sit in the bell, so the bell is guided properly over the crankshaft, it doesn't make a difference in measurement.

No need for such a expensive tool. Endplay i allways set without measuring, just get the least amount of gap without the bell binding with the trustbearing.
__________________
P1-RC.com
DS Motorsport is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2009, 09:05 AM   #4865
Tech Adept
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 170
Default

Sam's right on the relationship between the thrust bearing and the gear's outer rim. Iím lucky in that for whatever reason on my 720 the top of the thrust bearing is slightly above the gearís outer rim and I'm able to measure the gap with a set of feeler gauges which you can find almost anywhere for a few bucks (only wish that they had a nice slot cut in them so I could slide them all the way in). Mine was one of the original 720s, did Serpent make a design change in their gears or thrust bearings along the way that changed this relationship?

Itís funny that Hudy makes a nice expensive tool that among other things is able to measure the gap using the above ďfeeler gaugeĒ method. It would work on my 720 but it wonít work on my NT1 because the top of the thrust bearing sits below the gear rim on this car. Unfortunately there is not enough total clearance for me to put a shim under the thrust bearing to raise it up slightly or possibly use another slightly thicker thrust bearing and still achieve my desired clutch gap. I guess I could look into the possibility of modifying the collet to allow the entire clutch assembly to move back slightly thereby creating a slightly wider gap.

The gauge that Sam recommends is nice but is a little steep for my wallet. I wish someone would make a set of reasonably priced attachments that can be used on any dial indicator gauge. There could be an attachment for this use as well as attachments that could be screwed into the glow plug hole to measure piston position and probably a number of other useful attachments that I canít think of off the top of my head. I have a nice digital dial indicator that I picked up from Harbor Freight for a very good price that is more than adequate for the job. Iíve thought about having some attachments made for myself, but never gotten around to doing it.

I'll have to try DS's method, but at least on the 720 I thought the thrust bearing actually was supported by a rim inside the first gear pinion. I could be wrong or maybe the WC clutch is different than the stock clutch.
calvin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2009, 10:03 AM   #4866
Tech Elite
 
Pattojnr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Perth Australia
Posts: 4,594
Trader Rating: 19 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by calvin View Post
Sam's right on the relationship between the thrust bearing and the gear's outer rim. Iím lucky in that for whatever reason on my 720 the top of the thrust bearing is slightly above the gearís outer rim and I'm able to measure the gap with a set of feeler gauges which you can find almost anywhere for a few bucks (only wish that they had a nice slot cut in them so I could slide them all the way in). Mine was one of the original 720s, did Serpent make a design change in their gears or thrust bearings along the way that changed this relationship?

Itís funny that Hudy makes a nice expensive tool that among other things is able to measure the gap using the above ďfeeler gaugeĒ method. It would work on my 720 but it wonít work on my NT1 because the top of the thrust bearing sits below the gear rim on this car. Unfortunately there is not enough total clearance for me to put a shim under the thrust bearing to raise it up slightly or possibly use another slightly thicker thrust bearing and still achieve my desired clutch gap. I guess I could look into the possibility of modifying the collet to allow the entire clutch assembly to move back slightly thereby creating a slightly wider gap.

The gauge that Sam recommends is nice but is a little steep for my wallet. I wish someone would make a set of reasonably priced attachments that can be used on any dial indicator gauge. There could be an attachment for this use as well as attachments that could be screwed into the glow plug hole to measure piston position and probably a number of other useful attachments that I canít think of off the top of my head. I have a nice digital dial indicator that I picked up from Harbor Freight for a very good price that is more than adequate for the job. Iíve thought about having some attachments made for myself, but never gotten around to doing it.

I'll have to try DS's method, but at least on the 720 I thought the thrust bearing actually was supported by a rim inside the first gear pinion. I could be wrong or maybe the WC clutch is different than the stock clutch.
the WC clutch bell and pinions are different. the LC clutch setup , you can not remove the 1st pinion like DS said, as it retains the bearing and the thrust bearing. this method will only work for the WC, but removing the pinion all the time is a hassle to check your settings all the time. a digital vernier is the cheapest method but not as accurate as the Tool from Sam.
__________________
Serpent - Walter RC
Serpent E Power ..... Serpent 747 Reds M3T
Serpent 966-TE Reds M7T .... S411ERYX Speedpassion 3.5T, T-Shox
Serpent 811-TE REDs R5T
Pattojnr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2009, 10:50 AM   #4867
Tech Elite
 
gearhead_22's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Philly
Posts: 2,545
Trader Rating: 10 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to gearhead_22
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DS Motorsport View Post
When setting the gap with a wc clutch set you leave the first gear pinion off the clutchbell, this way the tool slides right in. When you're done setting the gap, put first gear on and set the endplay.

Btw i allways let one small bearing sit in the bell, so the bell is guided properly over the crankshaft, it doesn't make a difference in measurement.

No need for such a expensive tool. Endplay i allways set without measuring, just get the least amount of gap without the bell binding with the trustbearing.
thanks to all for the help. The tool that sam has is a bit high for my buget. and thanks DS I"ll try it your way.
__________________
serpent sdx4 srx2 977WC-novarossi-748TQ
serpent S120 LTR-S411
serpent America/Ashford Hobby/skyrocket racing
Juwan Hunter
gearhead_22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2009, 10:55 AM   #4868
Tech Champion
 
Team Kamikaze's Avatar
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: 我的名字是沈先生。我是中国人, 居住美国
Posts: 8,868
Trader Rating: 3 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gearhead_22 View Post
thanks to all for the help. The tool that sam has is a bit high for my buget. and thanks DS I"ll try it your way.
The tool is just a suggestion, but as Calvin mentioned, you can use a feeler gauge to measure endplay.
__________________
Home of the Kamikaze Driver's Development Program = guaranteed podium finish
Kamikaze Toys and Hobbies Inc.
Follow us here on Facebook!
Team Kamikaze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2009, 10:56 AM   #4869
Tech Elite
 
gearhead_22's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Philly
Posts: 2,545
Trader Rating: 10 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to gearhead_22
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by calvin View Post
Sam's right on the relationship between the thrust bearing and the gear's outer rim. Iím lucky in that for whatever reason on my 720 the top of the thrust bearing is slightly above the gearís outer rim and I'm able to measure the gap with a set of feeler gauges which you can find almost anywhere for a few bucks (only wish that they had a nice slot cut in them so I could slide them all the way in). Mine was one of the original 720s, did Serpent make a design change in their gears or thrust bearings along the way that changed this relationship?

Itís funny that Hudy makes a nice expensive tool that among other things is able to measure the gap using the above ďfeeler gaugeĒ method. It would work on my 720 but it wonít work on my NT1 because the top of the thrust bearing sits below the gear rim on this car. Unfortunately there is not enough total clearance for me to put a shim under the thrust bearing to raise it up slightly or possibly use another slightly thicker thrust bearing and still achieve my desired clutch gap. I guess I could look into the possibility of modifying the collet to allow the entire clutch assembly to move back slightly thereby creating a slightly wider gap.

The gauge that Sam recommends is nice but is a little steep for my wallet. I wish someone would make a set of reasonably priced attachments that can be used on any dial indicator gauge. There could be an attachment for this use as well as attachments that could be screwed into the glow plug hole to measure piston position and probably a number of other useful attachments that I canít think of off the top of my head. I have a nice digital dial indicator that I picked up from Harbor Freight for a very good price that is more than adequate for the job. Iíve thought about having some attachments made for myself, but never gotten around to doing it.

I'll have to try DS's method, but at least on the 720 I thought the thrust bearing actually was supported by a rim inside the first gear pinion. I could be wrong or maybe the WC clutch is different than the stock clutch.
yes the thrust bearing is supported buy a rim but in the manual it showes to put a shim under the thrust bearing.
__________________
serpent sdx4 srx2 977WC-novarossi-748TQ
serpent S120 LTR-S411
serpent America/Ashford Hobby/skyrocket racing
Juwan Hunter
gearhead_22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2009, 10:58 AM   #4870
Tech Elite
 
gearhead_22's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Philly
Posts: 2,545
Trader Rating: 10 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to gearhead_22
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pattojnr View Post
the WC clutch bell and pinions are different. the LC clutch setup , you can not remove the 1st pinion like DS said, as it retains the bearing and the thrust bearing. this method will only work for the WC, but removing the pinion all the time is a hassle to check your settings all the time. a digital vernier is the cheapest method but not as accurate as the Tool from Sam.
I ended up using a digital caliper.
__________________
serpent sdx4 srx2 977WC-novarossi-748TQ
serpent S120 LTR-S411
serpent America/Ashford Hobby/skyrocket racing
Juwan Hunter
gearhead_22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2009, 11:09 AM   #4871
Tech Master
 
captian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: city that never sleeps
Posts: 1,832
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gearhead_22 View Post
I ended up using a digital caliper.
thats what i use
__________________
serpent america * max power * beast mods *kopropo usa* protoform * team cmdi
captian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2009, 03:54 PM   #4872
Tech Adept
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 170
Default

I used to use a digital caliper too, but I swear that I could take ten different measurements and get ten different answers. After I figured out I could use a feeler gauge on the LC clutch (don't know about the WC), I never looked back. I'll have to check tomorrow, but I may have to apologize to Hudy as I guess it's possible to use their tool (or a set of feeler gauges) on the NT1 by making the measurements without the 1st gear pinion installed as DS suggested above for the 720 WC clutch - learn something new every day.
calvin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2009, 04:31 PM   #4873
Tech Master
 
beta bob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,101
Trader Rating: 2 (75%+)
Thumbs up

Just finished my car and man this thing is sweet looking now i just have to wait for my engine/pipe and servos to come in and then i will have a car to race!
__________________
Team Terribles---------2009 post of the year
"Cant you read Mopar???He said that he drives a T-max 2.5!!!!"
Spec classes are for communist
beta bob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2009, 07:49 PM   #4874
Tech Elite
 
Serpent-Dan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Florida
Posts: 2,844
Trader Rating: 16 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by beta bob View Post
Just finished my car and man this thing is sweet looking now i just have to wait for my engine/pipe and servos to come in and then i will have a car to race!
Congrats on the car Bob you will enjoy the car.
__________________
Inf1nity CM Beat1 Racing
Serpent-Dan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2009, 05:33 AM   #4875
Tech Elite
 
Kodak Hodak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: South Australia, Australia
Posts: 2,159
Trader Rating: 10 (100%+)
Send a message via MSN to Kodak Hodak Send a message via Yahoo to Kodak Hodak Send a message via Skype™ to Kodak Hodak
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by beta bob View Post
Just finished my car and man this thing is sweet looking now i just have to wait for my engine/pipe and servos to come in and then i will have a car to race!
i have a thingo for photos so it would be sweet to showcase the new ride.....


"so am waiting for my kit to arrive" BAD!
__________________
★ DORMANT RC RACER ★
Kodak Hodak is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Serpent 705 J_Longbrake Nitro On-Road 4252 02-23-2015 12:34 AM
Serpent 710 Ron C. Nitro On-Road 23347 03-16-2010 02:47 PM
WTB: NIB Serpent 710 aN4rK1 R/C Items: Wanted to Buy 3 06-16-2006 09:23 PM
Trade in Your Old Serpent 710 Parts for New Serpent 710 Parts fast_it710 R/C Items: For Sale/Trade 0 09-17-2004 12:27 AM
Serpent Impulse w/MT-12 and Serpent Starter box - cheap Solara R/C Items: For Sale/Trade 2 03-07-2003 03:01 PM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 08:38 AM.


Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net