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Old 03-14-2007, 09:35 AM   #2131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dj apolaro
Just some insite information on the clutch sheet. Not sure who wrote it but I will say the a lot of us drivers for Serpent USA like a very aggressive clutch. That calls for a little more end play. I do not use, as much as what was put, but I am almost as much. The less end play the smoother the clutches intial contact. The more travel, the more aggressive.
Very well said DJ

My brother and I also found it to be a little more than were used to. Although I tried what the sheet said to see if I will bust the thrust bearing and after maybe a gallon, the thrust bearing is still in very good shape. I went back to how I normally set it (less end play) just because I'm more used to less end play.

Anyways, I still find the supplemental sheet very helpful and use it to have a very good starting point especially the spring preload.
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Old 03-14-2007, 09:37 AM   #2132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dj apolaro
Just some insite information on the clutch sheet. Not sure who wrote it but I will say the a lot of us drivers for Serpent USA like a very aggressive clutch. That calls for a little more end play. I do not use, as much as what was put, but I am almost as much. The less end play the smoother the clutches intial contact. The more travel, the more aggressive.

Well, that probably explains it. Here in the Netherlands we can't use those aggressive clutches because there isn't enough traction on the track...
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Old 03-14-2007, 09:50 AM   #2133
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I have never blown a trust bearing. Knock on wood. As long as you keep it greased you are fine.
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Old 03-14-2007, 10:44 AM   #2134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dj apolaro
Just some insite information on the clutch sheet. Not sure who wrote it but I will say the a lot of us drivers for Serpent USA like a very aggressive clutch. That calls for a little more end play. I do not use, as much as what was put, but I am almost as much. The less end play the smoother the clutches intial contact. The more travel, the more aggressive.
Why is aggressive engagement a good thing? How does that help you?

Does this mean that the USA kits include the regular spring and the hard spring or do you just get the hard spring?
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Old 03-14-2007, 10:55 AM   #2135
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Well, now I'm thinking that perhaps the hard spring cushions the engagement a bit versus using that much endplay with the regular spring.

Jo ~ Besides that sheet, what other USA specific supplements are included with the kit?
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Old 03-14-2007, 11:20 AM   #2136
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The hard clutch spring is for harder engagement to take advantage of the sweet spot of the powerband. The harder engagement is for that extra punch which is a plus for high bite scenario. The beauty of having both hard and soft springs is for tunability. Say the traction is low, you can make the engagement "soft" to make the car easier to drive and not want to fish tail too much on power. Softer clutch springs can also help fuel economy.

The USA spec kit (I'm not sure about the others) came with both soft and hard clutch springs.
Here's a breakdown of the additional stuff included in the USA spec kit that I got last year:
Front one-way axle
Front axle shaft lock set
Centax 3 heavy duty clutch spring
Special Centax 3 Clutch instructions

Last edited by Derby Bros Racing; 03-14-2007 at 12:15 PM.
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Old 03-14-2007, 08:14 PM   #2137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo Gutierrez
Here's the supplemental sheet I was talking about. It came with the USA kit I got last August 2006.




This is to be used with the hard clutch spring (also came with the USA kit). You may need the manual to follow the instructions on how to setup the end play, etc.
Hope this helps .


Jo Gutierrez, thanks.

this really looks good to me. by the way i am using the hard centex spring.
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Old 03-14-2007, 08:19 PM   #2138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _cyclops_
I'm finding the end-play a lot too. I would set the end-play to minimum (0.2 or 0.1). I'm also wondering why the end-play is important?
What grease do you guys use on the thrust bearing, do you guys use the ceramic one?
I don't usually measure about the end-play. I just keep it at minimum all time. but does that effect the performance?
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Old 03-14-2007, 08:29 PM   #2139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius

In response to the questions of end play on the clutch.
- too much and the thrust bearing will get too much free movement and that is bad. Too little and when everything gets warm and expands, the bearing will be crushed.

I run about 0.2mm on all my engines. 0.5mm does seem a bit much.
To check if you're not running too little play, feel if there is play just after you've ran the car. Then all parts are warm and if there is still noticable play you're not too tight.
Question, have you ever measured your clutch after a long run. Do you know what extent of the temperature that the clutch can withstand? I know heat will reduce the efficiency of the clutch.
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Old 03-15-2007, 03:34 PM   #2140
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In about a week or so, I will be launching the 720 Knowledge Base at NitroKB.com. I still have quite a bit of work to do before and after it goes public, but I think it's a good starting point. It has some things that I haven't done with the other car KBs before, which I hope is going to be helpful to new racers, new 720 owners and those looking to improve their performance out on the track.

The FAQ section is pretty sparse compared to the MTX-4 and RRR. I know that Julius stated that there is no need for an FAQ (ref: Post 1294), but IMO, there is much more to the FAQs than just addressing issues. From one perspective, the lack of questions is a good thing, but from another perspective, it also says something else.

One thing that was clearly obvious, as I went through all 72 pages of this thread (for the second time), is that the Team Serpent guys provides great support for the 720 here in the forum. You won't find this level of vigilance and customer support in some of the other threads.

Another good thing about Serpent, is that they explain what their option parts do. For some of the other guys, it's more like "Here is a part. Here is a picture of it and a part number. You figure out what you're suppose to do with it."

There are two people that have directly contributed to the new site thus far, that I would like to thank:

DJ Apolaro ~ Thanks for answering all of my questions. Your hardwork, patience and understanding has been outstanding. Team Serpent is lucky to have you onboard.

Danny Horta ~ Great interview! I think everyone will really like it.

Maybe one of these days, I'll have a chance to own a 720. With all the good info and support that everyone provides, I'm sure I'll be successful from day one.

Cheers!
Rainer
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Old 03-15-2007, 04:19 PM   #2141
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About the clutch

I have being reading the last posts about the clutch. We are including the sheet as a good starting point from our experiences for almost every engine out there, and then it depends on every user to find his best setup. We feel that the clutch is at the same time something complicated but also easy, and to make the life of our customers easy, we decided to include this sheet.

Clutch is really important for the engine, cause this small monster have a lot of rpm but not lots of torque. So in order to have an engine performing in the proper way, consistant and reliable, clutch must be good.

I will be post some of my experiences during this next days about the clutch and settings. Please feel free to ask. It may take a couple of days but i try to answer all the messages.
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Old 03-15-2007, 10:00 PM   #2142
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paolo any more news on the 720 parts that you used at the nats
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Old 03-15-2007, 11:24 PM   #2143
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Paolo M,
Looking forward to your insight on the clutch setup. Even though we've raced electric for a number of years and feel fairly comfortable, we're relatively new to nitro. I would also appreciate some insight into the best way to determine optimum gearing for these cars. A starting point sheet for gearing options for various engines would be a big help or at least some kind of guidance on how to determine a good starting point for gearing.
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Old 03-16-2007, 05:16 AM   #2144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmdhawaii
One thing that was clearly obvious, as I went through all 72 pages of this thread (for the second time), is that the Team Serpent guys provides great support for the 720 here in the forum. You won't find this level of vigilance and customer support in some of the other threads.

Another good thing about Serpent, is that they explain what their option parts do. For some of the other guys, it's more like "Here is a part. Here is a picture of it and a part number. You figure out what you're suppose to do with it."

There are two people that have directly contributed to the new site thus far, that I would like to thank:

DJ Apolaro ~ Thanks for answering all of my questions. Your hardwork, patience and understanding has been outstanding. Team Serpent is lucky to have you onboard.


Maybe one of these days, I'll have a chance to own a 720. With all the good info and support that everyone provides, I'm sure I'll be successful from day one.

Cheers!
Rainer
This is exactly why I stay with Serpent!! Although I live in Mugen country up in NY the support I get from Serpent is second to none!!!
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Old 03-16-2007, 05:42 AM   #2145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calvin
Paolo M,
Looking forward to your insight on the clutch setup. Even though we've raced electric for a number of years and feel fairly comfortable, we're relatively new to nitro. I would also appreciate some insight into the best way to determine optimum gearing for these cars. A starting point sheet for gearing options for various engines would be a big help or at least some kind of guidance on how to determine a good starting point for gearing.
Gearing is usually determined but the track. I want my car to be quick in low gear and fast in high gear with the engine just about to peak out at the end of the straightaway when running the smaller tires.

I gear low gear so that the car accelerates off the turn very strongly without jumping sideways under throttle application. Also, I prefer the car not to change gears in the middle of a throttle on sweeper because it tends to upset the car.

Pinion changes = big changes and spur changes = smaller fine tuning changes.

I have an overdrive spreadsheet (excel) that I will be glad to share with you. It also has all the gear ratios on it.
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