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Old 03-20-2006, 06:55 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Motorman
The sirio's are bullets, now if they would just upsize the crank to 12 MM.

The Os's are pretty good stock but they do require some regular maintenance. You gotta eyeball the big end of the rod alot and if its looking like the rod bushing is trying to turn change it immediatly. But parts are cheap and plentiful. That being said the OS stock is torquey which will suit the 710.

The latest round of nova's I just ain't impressed with. However the torquey LL might be good in a 710 The best one they ever made was the NS12S3A1 billet piston motor which was the same as the Mugen X12. And they stopped making them. we'll have to see how this new one were hearing rumors of goes. All around solid reliability found here though and nova based engines get the job done day in and day out.

RB's The rody's are consistant and fast but your gonna spend some coin. Same with JP's. These are probably the best over the counter units right now.

The new Ninja, I have high hopes

I was real impressed with Big Ed N's Motors at the nats along with the version MX wrench is bringing along. They had one running real hard in tosolinis car.

The zx12 Mega. They run good if they are in an S 710 car. The engine is designed to take advantage of the 710's ultra low final drive. It makes a ton of torque which that car wants. In that car they haul az but you have to maintenance the rod. I have some I'm fooling with but if I can't get the revs we need with our gearing they'll go back in the box and join the test collection. Twice as fast as the os I think not

I'm not partial to any engine except the one I can make go the fastest and stay together with some level of reliability.

There you go have at it.
NS12S3A1 Is this the same as the NS12S3
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Old 03-20-2006, 06:56 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Xyvern
NS12S3A1 Is this the same as the NS12S3
If i aint mistaking... NS12S3 has a Piston/Sleeve are ABC while the NS12S3 are CNC... Dont know what CNC and ABC actually mean... But I believe it has to do with the material its made with.
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Old 03-20-2006, 07:03 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Chris West
Mega isnt twice as fast serpent man, they blow up and shit, 4 guys at my club had these engines and all of them only lasted 2 month,btw the os is fast enough on my track they are faster than the mega
I have been with serpent for one race and i have used every different motor up to that race. So thats and honest non-bias opinion. I know about serious racing not parking lot bashing or track bashing like most people that post on these topics. The mega motor I ran in flordia at the winternats ran 170-179 during qualifiers and 203 after a 35 min main. It was also just as fast down the back straight as most of the 1/8th scales. The mega motor runs rich and doesn't like to be lean. You ask all the guys that were running the mega motors and blew them up they were running 240-260 so maybe all your buddies at your track should try to gain some knowledge on tuning a motor
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Old 03-20-2006, 07:05 PM   #19
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The mega is twice as fast as the os and i think the durablity is fine
Dan,Twice as fast I though you quit smoking that stuff!!

Both the ZX12 and OSTZ are very good motors
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Old 03-20-2006, 07:11 PM   #20
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Dennis,
I thought the NS12S3 was the same as the mugen X12.
BTW The NS12S3 motors are still in production also!!
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Old 03-20-2006, 07:25 PM   #21
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I know about serious racing not parking lot bashing or track bashing like most people that post on these topics.

Dan, are you talking about Saturday Night bashing, oooo I mean racing !!
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Old 03-20-2006, 07:36 PM   #22
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Paolo
Were gonna try exactly what you said, gearing the car way up. Down at fort myers was the first time I used one of them and there was not enough time to play with gear ratios. Only after we came home and had some discussion and look at the IR of the serpent 710 did we realise the motor wants to be geared higher in our car by a significant amount. You can bet we will be trying it. We have been focused on high rever motors for a long time so its a little different philosophy.
Thanks for the input.
PS your team did a great job in FT Myers.

RC
I don't think the A1 version is still made.(however I have been wrong before)The billet piston version. I can say they have been scarce since the LS and LL engines came out. The X12 was the last one that had it that I know of. the NS12S3 non A1 version has a microcast piston.
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Old 03-20-2006, 07:51 PM   #23
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Dennis,
Just a fyi I happend to have a couple of NS12S3 Production year 2006. I was told that this motor was the cnc version same as the X12??? Was I given bad info??
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Old 03-20-2006, 08:35 PM   #24
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I think, the difference between the NS12S3 and the A1 version was the head button. I am NOT sure of that. I am almost sure that none of the NS engines had microcast pistons. The NSR and later engines used the microcast pistons.

The Mugen X12 is a CNC piston engine.

For those that don't understand the differences:

CNC is a machining process. In this case the piston is machined from a block of material.

Microcasting is a process where the piston is cast from molten material.

This is simplified but two different processes.
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Old 03-20-2006, 08:40 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motorman
Paolo
Were gonna try exactly what you said, gearing the car way up. Down at fort myers was the first time I used one of them and there was not enough time to play with gear ratios. Only after we came home and had some discussion and look at the IR of the serpent 710 did we realise the motor wants to be geared higher in our car by a significant amount. You can bet we will be trying it. We have been focused on high rever motors for a long time so its a little different philosophy.
Thanks for the input.
PS your team did a great job in FT Myers.

RC
I don't think the A1 version is still made.(however I have been wrong before)The billet piston version. I can say they have been scarce since the LS and LL engines came out. The X12 was the last one that had it that I know of. the NS12S3 non A1 version has a microcast piston.
Dont forget to also increase the clutch bell gap more than usual. The Mega Picco engines like tall gearing, more than usual clutch spring preload and bigger clutch bell gap. Not to mention their pipe...

But just get a TZ... I payed $68 for piston/sleeve/conrod at my LHS... for what other engine can you get replacement parts at that price? (I bought them as a precaution, better safe than sorry).
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Old 03-20-2006, 08:42 PM   #26
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Thanks for the info Scott!!
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Old 03-20-2006, 08:45 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Fisher
I think, the difference between the NS12S3 and the A1 version was the head button. I am NOT sure of that. I am almost sure that none of the NS engines had microcast pistons. The NSR and later engines used the microcast pistons.

The Mugen X12 is a CNC piston engine.

For those that don't understand the differences:

CNC is a machining process. In this case the piston is machined from a block of material.

Microcasting is a process where the piston is cast from molten material.

This is simplified but two different processes.
Any idea on what are the advantages or disadvantages (other than pricing) between cnc and microcasting?
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Old 03-20-2006, 08:54 PM   #28
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If the underside of the piston is fully machined and shiny its the billet version. if its unmachined its microcast.

Your probably right scott. In fact you probably are, I was under the impression when the X12 dried up the NS versions did to. However a quick check of novarossi's site still shows them listed.

However the billet piston version from my experience had unbelievable durability and better long term seal. They usually out last the motor as long as you have never cooked it. They just take a long time to break in before the engine gets fast. Usually a half gallon of fuel. The microcast ones break in much faster.

Microcasting is the same process as what is refered to here in the USA as the powdered metal process. The powdered alumunium is placed in a hot die and heated to almost the point of molten then the material is struck with a die to compress it into a solid net shape piece requiring little finish machining..
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Old 03-20-2006, 09:29 PM   #29
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Just want to add all engines made on CNC, regardless the piston is made out of bar stock or casted or whatever.
CNC means-Computerized Numerical Control, which in short words will describe those machines which were using to make product are not manualy operated-they operated by computer. For some reason some people taking this MAGIC word CNC as a process to make piston (including material). Dennis descibe he difference absolutly correct. I want to add one more process-it is casted to mold pistons and they are totaly different (material) from bar stock and powder metallurgy, even mechanical properties are pretty close. If you go way back in my post like 1.5 year ago (right after Novarossi came out with MC pistons), I predicted that Microcasting pistons will be short lasting life. We did pistons from MC materials in mid of 80's. Were working really good, but no life span.

Dennis, thanks a lot for good words. I hope one day you will get back to engines again-don't give up man!!!!!!
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Old 03-20-2006, 09:40 PM   #30
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Which one is better? CNC or Microcasted?
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