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Old 02-02-2006, 04:05 PM   #1
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Default More Centax-2 questions.

Sorry guys. I've read the Serpent site stock-setup and another couple of articles on setup, but I have a few questions.

1) Endplay. The article I read said that once you have the clutch gap adjusted at the thrust bearing, to re-install the two bearings underneath the bell and adjust endplay to 0.1mm with shims, in front of the flywheel nut. What I don't understand, is why you want to add shims in front of the flywheel nut. This causes the clutch bell to move farther away from the clutch shoe. On my clutch, with no shims, I still have a gap to where the bell spins freely. If I add any shims, the gap grows larger. I thought the idea was to get as close to the clutch shoe as possible, without dragging on it.

2) Why does my small 16-tooth pinion gear keep spinning off the clutch bell? The larger gear doesn't. Also, my car seems to run the same with the small one missing.

3) My car revs pretty high before the clutch engages, then it takes off slow, but starts booking really suddenly. Do I need to tighten the flywheel nut, change the endplay, or change the clutch gap?

Thanks.
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Old 02-02-2006, 04:58 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sstupid
Sorry guys. I've read the Serpent site stock-setup and another couple of articles on setup, but I have a few questions.

1) Endplay. The article I read said that once you have the clutch gap adjusted at the thrust bearing, to re-install the two bearings underneath the bell and adjust endplay to 0.1mm with shims, in front of the flywheel nut. What I don't understand, is why you want to add shims in front of the flywheel nut. This causes the clutch bell to move farther away from the clutch shoe. On my clutch, with no shims, I still have a gap to where the bell spins freely. If I add any shims, the gap grows larger. I thought the idea was to get as close to the clutch shoe as possible, without dragging on it.
FIRST you set the gap between the clutch shoe and the bell, to 0.5-0.7mm
Then you eliminate the end play as mentioned, because you don't want the clutch shoe to hit the clutch bell and then let this bell hit the trust bearing, because this bearing won't live long then....
The shims to minimize the end play should go in front of the flywheel nut, but behind the bearing......
You don't want the clutch shoe to be as close as possible to the clutch bell, you need a gap to let the clutch work properly
Quote:
2) Why does my small 16-tooth pinion gear keep spinning off the clutch bell? The larger gear doesn't. Also, my car seems to run the same with the small one missing.
I think your car is stuck in 2nd gear.....
Quote:
3) My car revs pretty high before the clutch engages, then it takes off slow, but starts booking really suddenly. Do I need to tighten the flywheel nut, change the endplay, or change the clutch gap?
Thanks.
Set the gap to 0.5-0.7 mm, with no bearings installed exept for the trust bearing, then install the bearings and remove the end play with the shims in between the flywheel nut and the first bearing......

Hope you will understand....
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Old 02-02-2006, 08:25 PM   #3
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Thanks. I think I have it, now. The definition of "endplay" is what was confusing me. The distance of the bell from the clutch shoe isn't important, as long as the endplay is removed. I was trying to eliminate endplay while keeping the bell close to the clutch shoe, which meant I was working one against the other. I added shims and increased the distance from the bell to the clutch shoe, to close the endplay down to approx 0.1mm. Then, I loosened the flywheel nut, so the clutch shoe could meet the clutch bell without too many RPMs. It seems to be working better, now. I guess I'll find out if my engagement is too strong with the life of the thrust bearing.

Now I'm running into issues with the car spinning out. Sometimes, after is spins out, it dies. I also noticed that when I hit the throttle, with the car on the bench, the chassis flexes. I have a lot to learn and some tools to buy before I can adjust the suspension/chassis. What a time-consuming hobby.
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Old 02-03-2006, 01:25 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sstupid
The distance of the bell from the clutch shoe isn't important, as long as the endplay is removed.
Well, not exactly.....
This distance (the "gap") IS important.....
If you make the gap too big (around 1mm or bigger)
the possibility exist that the shoe will never fully touch the bell, because the spring will prevent this.....
(remember, the spring has a certain range, after installing it and mounting the tensionscrew, the spring is compressed a bit, the possibility exist that you can not compress it more then the existing "gap")......
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Old 02-03-2006, 06:20 AM   #5
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Well, here's my problem, then: if I remove all the shims, I still have a gap between the clutch shoe and the bell, along with some axial play. Adding shims simply makes the gap larger, but removed the axial play down to an extimated 0.1mm. So, how can I narrow that gap if I already have all the shims pulled out from in front of the flywheel nut, but I still have a gap there? Do I need to add another shim to the front of the thrust bearing? I think I have the clutch gap set to .6mm, but it's hard to measure.

Thanks.
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Old 02-03-2006, 06:32 AM   #6
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It's really easy to measure.....

Have you read these tips?......
http://www.mytsn.com/publ/publ.asp?pid=10534
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Old 02-03-2006, 09:25 AM   #7
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Yeah, I think I've read 10 articles, by now. They all say the same thing about measuring, but not how to measure it. I have a set of digital calipers, but it's hard to be accurate with them.

The clutch seems to be working fine, now. We'll see if anything gets trashed. Thanks for the help, though.
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Old 02-03-2006, 10:22 AM   #8
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Default Centax-2 adjustment

Hi all,

Yes, Centax adjustment is time-consuming, but once set up properly, you just walk away and leave it. The best tool I found to set the gaps on my Centax clutches is the Team Tamale Digital Clutch Gap Tool. It is much easier & faster to use than calipers... no math to do, either. It is a bit pricey, but the convenience factor sure makes up for it. Usually when I attend a big race, I end up setting up people's clutches for them... and the results are always spectacular!

Clutch gap... the amount the shoe moves before it hits the clutchbell... is set completely independently of endplay. Measure and set the clutch gap with all bearings removed, and only the thrustbearing in place. Shims go on the thrustbearing holder.

When you measure endplay, it is something that you can easily measure by hand. Endplay is AXIAL endplay... I call it "slop" in an otherwise well-adjusted clutch. When you have the clutch all assembled, ready to go... try pulling on the clutchbell. If you find that the clutchbell moves back&forth along the crankshaft more than just a little bit, you have too much endplay. You want the clutchbell to be almost 'frozen in position' on the crankshaft, so that it does not move outward when the clutch shoe hits it. If you have excess endplay... when the clutch shoe hits the clutchbell the clutchbell "kinda" engages, but then the clutchbell moves outward until it stops... result: the clutch gap and engagement is different from the clutch gap you set earlier... since everything moves a bit more before it solidly engages. Too much endplay will toast a thrustbearing very quickly.

Does this help at all ?


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Old 02-03-2006, 05:05 PM   #9
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Yes sir, that helped. It helped me to realize that my clutch is now set up correctly. I'm rockin' and rollin'. Too bad I hit a curb.
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Old 02-04-2006, 08:41 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sstupid
Yes sir, that helped. It helped me to realize that my clutch is now set up correctly. I'm rockin' and rollin'. Too bad I hit a curb.
Glad to hear your clutch issues are resolved.
Don't feel bad about the curb thing... I feel your pain... been there, done that.
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