Ceramic Thrust Bearings
#16
I use ceramic bearings in my clutches because I can run them without lubrication to keep the inside of the clutch from being contaminated. I have ceramic clutch bearings several years old that still work fine, despite being run without lubrication from the moment I installed them.
If you want to use a brass washer instead of a thrust bearing in a Centax clutch, you should use an Oilite bushing instead, because it will supply its own lubrication as it wears-down.
If you want to use a brass washer instead of a thrust bearing in a Centax clutch, you should use an Oilite bushing instead, because it will supply its own lubrication as it wears-down.
#17
As with every discussion: is ceramics better?
If it is for the clutch I do not even use a bearing... When does the thrustbearing actually works. Only on the moment the clutch engages. With Idle it runs free due the play and on high revs it is standing still.
Does it need a performance or a light resistance?
No, because when the cluch is engaging there is already a huge slip withthe clutch shoe and bell...
So Because the thrust bearing can fail in a race I eliminate the chance on a failure to zero by replacing the ring with the balls with a brass 10x5 washer with some greese.
See it as a ball less bearing
If it is for the clutch I do not even use a bearing... When does the thrustbearing actually works. Only on the moment the clutch engages. With Idle it runs free due the play and on high revs it is standing still.
Does it need a performance or a light resistance?
No, because when the cluch is engaging there is already a huge slip withthe clutch shoe and bell...
So Because the thrust bearing can fail in a race I eliminate the chance on a failure to zero by replacing the ring with the balls with a brass 10x5 washer with some greese.
See it as a ball less bearing
#18
Because it is a friction bearing it does create some temperature but it works and works flawless. I have tried a softer brass but that can not withstand the presure the clutch creates. I still want to try ceramics but it is not easy to get a small piece of bar.
#19
Top tier grease has a GC on the spec label. That's the bearing rating, there is a separate rating for other automotive applications right next to it.
#20
I face the groove to the brass ring so I can put the greese in the groove.
Because it is a friction bearing it does create some temperature but it works and works flawless. I have tried a softer brass but that can not withstand the presure the clutch creates. I still want to try ceramics but it is not easy to get a small piece of bar.
Because it is a friction bearing it does create some temperature but it works and works flawless. I have tried a softer brass but that can not withstand the presure the clutch creates. I still want to try ceramics but it is not easy to get a small piece of bar.
#21
Why not use a normal bearing? I did.
But the rings work what Roelof mentioned
But the rings work what Roelof mentioned
#22
Tech Elite
iTrader: (89)
Ralph, if you grab a top tier automotive wheel bearing grease with extreme pressure additives. There should be enough in the grove to keep from burning up the washers. That's assuming the tolerance and gap is respectable. I'm curious and may give it a go around when I go through one of my clutch units.
Top tier grease has a GC on the spec label. That's the bearing rating, there is a separate rating for other automotive applications right next to it.
Top tier grease has a GC on the spec label. That's the bearing rating, there is a separate rating for other automotive applications right next to it.
I ran this setup years ago. I just got tired of compensating for the thickness of the Brass bushing as wears and I could not secure a plentiful source of these bushings so I switched back to the conventional bearing. But it does work.
Pass you soon...
Last edited by lil-bump; 11-22-2017 at 07:09 AM.
#23
Now what will cause a thrust bearing to fail ?
Clutch not set up right (gap)
lack of grease
Heat
Dirt
Clutch not set up right (gap)
lack of grease
Heat
Dirt
#24
More heat is made with a clutch with some slip than with the brass ring. Most important with the normal bearings is that you have to lube them from time to time, a thinge many people forget.
I do not think ceramic brakepads will work because brakepads are not made to have a low friction But we have figured out that steel plates with a DLC coating and a creamic based brass must give the right setup for a good ball less thrustbearing. By the way, google to "thrust washer" and your eyes will be opened.
#25
clutch set up ?
Hey guys I didn't want to start a whole other thread so am sure you guys that have a deep knowledge will most likely give some good advice, but in the following video the guy states to shim your clutch gap and end play always behind the clutch bell and behind the flywheel and here I always thought you can use shims behind the thrust bearing.
And has anyone use or have this clutch gauge he is using ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBH6VtlJGQE
And has anyone use or have this clutch gauge he is using ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBH6VtlJGQE
#26
He has a point by not using gap shims at the thrust bearing but I doubt it is that good noticable. Used shims are always deformed and can give that spring effect.
One important thing he did not show is when you push on the collar you have to pull out the crankshaft.
That tool is expensive and made by Xceed (Serpent), if you know someone with a lathe ye could make an adapter like that and for less than 20 dollar you can find a digital dial.
Also the shims is wise to look arround on ebay/alibaba, bags with 100pcs of 1 thickness can be found for a few dollar. Get them in several sizes and you do not have to re-use them.
Regarding the endplay, too much endplay is killing the thrust bearing. When the clutch is engaging the ring with the balls needs to re-locate the grooves of the rings with the possibillity to get damaged.
Sadly you do need some endplay due the expansion of the clutchbell because the heat but a zero endplay is possible by adding a spring with the endplay shims. I was searching for a suitable spring and found a small wave spring.
I have found a thin wave spring with a 5mm hole. You need to set the endplay to 0.4~0.5mm and add this small spring. It will push the clutchbell from the shoe and push the thrust bearing to zero play. Some people use a normal 0.1mm shimm and bemnd it a bit hollow to act like a spring.
With this saying, it is also important that the normal bearings can slide freely over the crankshaft so I always oil the crankshaft. You also have to check the end tip of the crankshaft and the beginning of the clutch top piece (holding the thrust bearing). By screwing them tight together a small edge of deformation can show up preventing the bearings to slide over the shaft.
One important thing he did not show is when you push on the collar you have to pull out the crankshaft.
That tool is expensive and made by Xceed (Serpent), if you know someone with a lathe ye could make an adapter like that and for less than 20 dollar you can find a digital dial.
Also the shims is wise to look arround on ebay/alibaba, bags with 100pcs of 1 thickness can be found for a few dollar. Get them in several sizes and you do not have to re-use them.
Regarding the endplay, too much endplay is killing the thrust bearing. When the clutch is engaging the ring with the balls needs to re-locate the grooves of the rings with the possibillity to get damaged.
Sadly you do need some endplay due the expansion of the clutchbell because the heat but a zero endplay is possible by adding a spring with the endplay shims. I was searching for a suitable spring and found a small wave spring.
I have found a thin wave spring with a 5mm hole. You need to set the endplay to 0.4~0.5mm and add this small spring. It will push the clutchbell from the shoe and push the thrust bearing to zero play. Some people use a normal 0.1mm shimm and bemnd it a bit hollow to act like a spring.
With this saying, it is also important that the normal bearings can slide freely over the crankshaft so I always oil the crankshaft. You also have to check the end tip of the crankshaft and the beginning of the clutch top piece (holding the thrust bearing). By screwing them tight together a small edge of deformation can show up preventing the bearings to slide over the shaft.
#27
He has a point by not using gap shims at the thrust bearing but I doubt it is that good noticable. Used shims are always deformed and can give that spring effect.
One important thing he did not show is when you push on the collar you have to pull out the crankshaft.
That tool is expensive and made by Xceed (Serpent), if you know someone with a lathe ye could make an adapter like that and for less than 20 dollar you can find a digital dial.
Also the shims is wise to look arround on ebay/alibaba, bags with 100pcs of 1 thickness can be found for a few dollar. Get them in several sizes and you do not have to re-use them.
Regarding the endplay, too much endplay is killing the thrust bearing. When the clutch is engaging the ring with the balls needs to re-locate the grooves of the rings with the possibillity to get damaged.
Sadly you do need some endplay due the expansion of the clutchbell because the heat but a zero endplay is possible by adding a spring with the endplay shims. I was searching for a suitable spring and found a small wave spring.
I have found a thin wave spring with a 5mm hole. You need to set the endplay to 0.4~0.5mm and add this small spring. It will push the clutchbell from the shoe and push the thrust bearing to zero play. Some people use a normal 0.1mm shimm and bemnd it a bit hollow to act like a spring.
With this saying, it is also important that the normal bearings can slide freely over the crankshaft so I always oil the crankshaft. You also have to check the end tip of the crankshaft and the beginning of the clutch top piece (holding the thrust bearing). By screwing them tight together a small edge of deformation can show up preventing the bearings to slide over the shaft.
One important thing he did not show is when you push on the collar you have to pull out the crankshaft.
That tool is expensive and made by Xceed (Serpent), if you know someone with a lathe ye could make an adapter like that and for less than 20 dollar you can find a digital dial.
Also the shims is wise to look arround on ebay/alibaba, bags with 100pcs of 1 thickness can be found for a few dollar. Get them in several sizes and you do not have to re-use them.
Regarding the endplay, too much endplay is killing the thrust bearing. When the clutch is engaging the ring with the balls needs to re-locate the grooves of the rings with the possibillity to get damaged.
Sadly you do need some endplay due the expansion of the clutchbell because the heat but a zero endplay is possible by adding a spring with the endplay shims. I was searching for a suitable spring and found a small wave spring.
I have found a thin wave spring with a 5mm hole. You need to set the endplay to 0.4~0.5mm and add this small spring. It will push the clutchbell from the shoe and push the thrust bearing to zero play. Some people use a normal 0.1mm shimm and bemnd it a bit hollow to act like a spring.
With this saying, it is also important that the normal bearings can slide freely over the crankshaft so I always oil the crankshaft. You also have to check the end tip of the crankshaft and the beginning of the clutch top piece (holding the thrust bearing). By screwing them tight together a small edge of deformation can show up preventing the bearings to slide over the shaft.
Question is when do you change out the shims with new ones ? every 3 or 4 tanks of running ?
#28
0.3mm and thicker shims do keep their shape quite well, the thinner ones can be easilly misformed.
Recently at a Dutch shop I did find 0.2 and 0.25mm shims in bags of 100pcs so now it is much easy to build up a clutch with fresh shims. Basically I use only fresh shims when do a rebuild of the clutch wih a fresh shoe and once in a while a fresh spring. For springs I always use the hard ones that gives the clutch more push. I also use Belleville washers as a clutch spring, I have a few hundred of them of which the most still need to be seized down to fit the clutch..
Recently at a Dutch shop I did find 0.2 and 0.25mm shims in bags of 100pcs so now it is much easy to build up a clutch with fresh shims. Basically I use only fresh shims when do a rebuild of the clutch wih a fresh shoe and once in a while a fresh spring. For springs I always use the hard ones that gives the clutch more push. I also use Belleville washers as a clutch spring, I have a few hundred of them of which the most still need to be seized down to fit the clutch..
#29
Tech Elite
iTrader: (21)
Hey guys I didn't want to start a whole other thread so am sure you guys that have a deep knowledge will most likely give some good advice, but in the following video the guy states to shim your clutch gap and end play always behind the clutch bell and behind the flywheel and here I always thought you can use shims behind the thrust bearing.
And has anyone use or have this clutch gauge he is using ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBH6VtlJGQE
And has anyone use or have this clutch gauge he is using ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBH6VtlJGQE
#30