The future of Rc..not so bright??
06-21-2016, 09:17 PM
#46
I think this is one of the biggest issues with the hobby today. There is just WAY too much market competition. There are so many companies, manufacturers, parts, accessories, fuels, brands, etc.... you name it. Its got to be a world of confusion now to new comers I cant imagine, for me even an experienced hobbyist it gets a little over whelming trying to pick the best stuff for me and my applications. The home work alone now takes too much time and is a deterrent from the hobby for sure. People just want to buy good performing reliable gear and just run, not work on their rigs tweaking and tuning all the time. Manufacturers need to start coming out with better, more user friendly, better running, easier to set up ans start gear for lower prices and with less options to choose from.
06-21-2016, 09:24 PM
#47
That is precisely one of the big problems. It's like buying a new toothbrush. It's a PIA because there are 50 to choose from. Beyond all those stupid electric motor choices, you have nitro or electric, large-scale gasser, minis, quads(an enormous world unto itself.. - racing, AP, self-built, toy-grade, Phantoms..), planes, boats, helis,...
The bottom line though is still cost IMO. You need 1500 to two grand if starting from scratch in order to be able to show up with (what's perceived as) decent gear. Yeah you can get used, but you have to really know what you're doing in order to go that route IMO.
So the thing is, it costs a ton, and for the most part those who have that kind of money (for toy cars) are adults, and they have other things to do - house, kids, work, etc.. So the time is a factor. There needs to be a simplifed way of racing - an Elite 5 class and and an open class maybe, with truggies and buggies on the same track even, all run on one day, instead of having to wait for flashlights. The introduction of electric heats at the races I was going to over the years definitely made the whole experience of racing even more tedious. Just made everything last longer with no more running time. With nitro at least I can enjoy watching it. Watching an electric heat fills me with existential dread and makes me not only ponder the point of racing, but the point of existence...
The bottom line though is still cost IMO. You need 1500 to two grand if starting from scratch in order to be able to show up with (what's perceived as) decent gear. Yeah you can get used, but you have to really know what you're doing in order to go that route IMO.
So the thing is, it costs a ton, and for the most part those who have that kind of money (for toy cars) are adults, and they have other things to do - house, kids, work, etc.. So the time is a factor. There needs to be a simplifed way of racing - an Elite 5 class and and an open class maybe, with truggies and buggies on the same track even, all run on one day, instead of having to wait for flashlights. The introduction of electric heats at the races I was going to over the years definitely made the whole experience of racing even more tedious. Just made everything last longer with no more running time. With nitro at least I can enjoy watching it. Watching an electric heat fills me with existential dread and makes me not only ponder the point of racing, but the point of existence...
06-21-2016, 09:57 PM
#48
That is precisely one of the big problems. It's like buying a new toothbrush. It's a PIA because there are 50 to choose from. Beyond all those stupid electric motor choices, you have nitro or electric, large-scale gasser, minis, quads(an enormous world unto itself.. - racing, AP, self-built, toy-grade, Phantoms..), planes, boats, helis,...
The bottom line though is still cost IMO. You need 1500 to two grand if starting from scratch in order to be able to show up with (what's perceived as) decent gear. Yeah you can get used, but you have to really know what you're doing in order to go that route IMO.
So the thing is, it costs a ton, and for the most part those who have that kind of money (for toy cars) are adults, and they have other things to do - house, kids, work, etc.. So the time is a factor. There needs to be a simplifed way of racing - an Elite 5 class and and an open class maybe, with truggies and buggies on the same track even, all run on one day, instead of having to wait for flashlights. The introduction of electric heats at the races I was going to over the years definitely made the whole experience of racing even more tedious. Just made everything last longer with no more running time. With nitro at least I can enjoy watching it. Watching an electric heat fills me with existential dread and makes me not only ponder the point of racing, but the point of existence...
The bottom line though is still cost IMO. You need 1500 to two grand if starting from scratch in order to be able to show up with (what's perceived as) decent gear. Yeah you can get used, but you have to really know what you're doing in order to go that route IMO.
So the thing is, it costs a ton, and for the most part those who have that kind of money (for toy cars) are adults, and they have other things to do - house, kids, work, etc.. So the time is a factor. There needs to be a simplifed way of racing - an Elite 5 class and and an open class maybe, with truggies and buggies on the same track even, all run on one day, instead of having to wait for flashlights. The introduction of electric heats at the races I was going to over the years definitely made the whole experience of racing even more tedious. Just made everything last longer with no more running time. With nitro at least I can enjoy watching it. Watching an electric heat fills me with existential dread and makes me not only ponder the point of racing, but the point of existence...
06-21-2016, 11:54 PM
#49
Over here with TC 1/10 the same. 10.5 superstock, 13.5 stock and on some clubs 17.5 or even 21.5.
06-22-2016, 12:12 AM
#50
Tech Master
iTrader: (6)
You say it costs up to 2 grand to get into this hobby. Your right it does. But name me a motorsport that you can buy top level equiptment and be ready to go for 2 grand. This stuff is expensive, but its also intense stuff, like i can buy a motor that the current world champion uses for 400 bucks, no other motor sport allows that
06-22-2016, 06:47 AM
#51
Apples and oranges, IMHO. You're talking about toy cars. And a $400 engine, for a toy car. All those other motor sports you're actually driving/riding.. Completely different things.
Nobody (your average club racer..) needs a $400 engine.. (Plus a $50 clutch, $150 pipe, and on and on..) That's the problem in a nutshell - people coming along thinking it's normal, and it becomes the norm. Which is when I say forget it.. And judging by the increasing frequency of these types of threads, a lot of other people too. It is just too stupid expensive when just the engine costs 400 bucks.
Nobody (your average club racer..) needs a $400 engine.. (Plus a $50 clutch, $150 pipe, and on and on..) That's the problem in a nutshell - people coming along thinking it's normal, and it becomes the norm. Which is when I say forget it.. And judging by the increasing frequency of these types of threads, a lot of other people too. It is just too stupid expensive when just the engine costs 400 bucks.
06-22-2016, 07:07 AM
#52
I see someone state the hobby has never been bigger. I'm afraid I have to disagree. It's great if you're sponsored, but buying everything at full retail to compete hurts. I can provide plenty of links showing retailers are hurting badly but don't want to get into politics. I follow economics pretty closely.
Both my sons are getting out. My sil has already. I have sold off everything but a Losi truggy myself. Bottom line is no one I know can really afford it for a hobby. I mean look at the rise in price of parts alone. Even pull parts from Dollar Hobby.
I have seen several sell threads in the last few months "getting out". One guy even said it was a money pit hobby. I can't say I disagree.
Both my sons are getting out. My sil has already. I have sold off everything but a Losi truggy myself. Bottom line is no one I know can really afford it for a hobby. I mean look at the rise in price of parts alone. Even pull parts from Dollar Hobby.
I have seen several sell threads in the last few months "getting out". One guy even said it was a money pit hobby. I can't say I disagree.
06-22-2016, 07:23 AM
#53
I see someone state the hobby has never been bigger. I'm afraid I have to disagree. It's great if you're sponsored, but buying everything at full retail to compete hurts. I can provide plenty of links showing retailers are hurting badly but don't want to get into politics. I follow economics pretty closely.
Both my sons are getting out. My sil has already. I have sold off everything but a Losi truggy myself. Bottom line is no one I know can really afford it for a hobby. I mean look at the rise in price of parts alone. Even pull parts from Dollar Hobby.
I have seen several sell threads in the last few months "getting out". One guy even said it was a money pit hobby. I can't say I disagree.
Both my sons are getting out. My sil has already. I have sold off everything but a Losi truggy myself. Bottom line is no one I know can really afford it for a hobby. I mean look at the rise in price of parts alone. Even pull parts from Dollar Hobby.
I have seen several sell threads in the last few months "getting out". One guy even said it was a money pit hobby. I can't say I disagree.
06-22-2016, 07:25 AM
#54
I'd get out if I could, but am not going to give it away..
There have always been "I'm getting out" sell threads, but IMHO money spent on RC racing has never been as wasted as it is these days. Next year there will be a Spec XXX engine and a chassis version B.4xxx, and a whole new range of tires, and...., oh, I don't know, a lexan wing.. Oh wait. Anyway, all that stuff will mean your current stuff is worthless. Duh.. At least 7-8 years ago there was a sensible used market. Now it's just a charity.
There have always been "I'm getting out" sell threads, but IMHO money spent on RC racing has never been as wasted as it is these days. Next year there will be a Spec XXX engine and a chassis version B.4xxx, and a whole new range of tires, and...., oh, I don't know, a lexan wing.. Oh wait. Anyway, all that stuff will mean your current stuff is worthless. Duh.. At least 7-8 years ago there was a sensible used market. Now it's just a charity.
06-22-2016, 07:31 AM
#55
What hobby isn't a money pit? 15 years ago I was paying 100.00 for a match 6 cell 1700 Nicad battery pack. That you run once and it is done. Now you buy 6500 90c Lipo packs for 80.00 and they can run all day. 15 years ago there were still 600.00 engines. Kyosho has always been expensive. Find me a hobby that doesn't cost you at least 2 grand(that's fun).
So I always assumed planes were too expensive.
Til I discovered modern foam planes. OK, you need a decent radio, charger, etc. But once you have that, you can have very, very good airplanes for 200 bucks. 100mph. But OK, you say, no racing. Well get into FPV quads. OK, you do need expensive goggles. But one, it's a one-time cost. And two, you can sell them at some point and actually get some money back, instead of giving them away. Then you can have a great racing quad for 200-500 bucks.
I've got about 11 models on my radio now. Foamie warbirds and quads. I don't really do FPV (yet). I have cheapo Quanum goggles, but haven't taken the plunge for expensive Fatsharks. IMO it's a must, but that's another story. All up I would say flying is about a quarter as expensive as cars. I still miss running nitro engines, but I won't be buying any more... (I have enough to keep me busy for years anyway..)
In any case, it's amazing how much performance you can get in planes and quads for the money, AND how much it keeps its value. Radios and stuff anyway.
Some money pits are worse than others. And besides maybe gambling at casinos - poorly.., I can't imagine a worse one than RC racing.
06-22-2016, 07:40 AM
#56
Tech Master
iTrader: (6)
Apples and oranges, IMHO. You're talking about toy cars. And a $400 engine, for a toy car. All those other motor sports you're actually driving/riding.. Completely different things.
Nobody (your average club racer..) needs a $400 engine.. (Plus a $50 clutch, $150 pipe, and on and on..) That's the problem in a nutshell - people coming along thinking it's normal, and it becomes the norm. Which is when I say forget it.. And judging by the increasing frequency of these types of threads, a lot of other people too. It is just too stupid expensive when just the engine costs 400 bucks.
Nobody (your average club racer..) needs a $400 engine.. (Plus a $50 clutch, $150 pipe, and on and on..) That's the problem in a nutshell - people coming along thinking it's normal, and it becomes the norm. Which is when I say forget it.. And judging by the increasing frequency of these types of threads, a lot of other people too. It is just too stupid expensive when just the engine costs 400 bucks.
06-22-2016, 07:44 AM
#57
Tech Regular
I think debates like this are interesting because people in our hobby want such different things out of it.
-some call them toy car, some call them race cars
-some see it as a hobby, and some see it as a sport.
-some think RC can go mainstream some dont
-some do it for a living and MOST dont.
Herrsavage - You are giving number for the top of the line products. I agree that the hobby is expensive. I agree most people don't need a $400 engine, but that isn't the consumers only option. Companies make RTR cars that are better than they have ever been for a reasonable price. Motor companies make good motors for a lot less than $400.
for example, Just because i want to buy a bicycle doesn't mean I need the same one the Tour De France winner has.
IMO the thing that is hurting the hobby is the amount of sponsorships out there. People get into the hobby and once they get their feet wet, they chase a sponsorship. which is some 50% deal from a crappy car that basically take the local hobby shop out of the equation. This also makes everyone at the club races way more serious so they can post their sportsman club race win on Facebook the next morning. Now this "sponsored" drive gets frustrated and quits because the car he is running a crap and he has spent thousands of dollars (because he feels like he has to because he is a "sponsored") After a while hobby shops will be gone and who is going to help the guy that wants to get in the hobby now? The local hobby shop that doesn't exist? Or the "sponsored" driver that has one year under his belt? unfortunately its a bad cycle that i don't think is going away
Before all these 50% sponsorship existed those people were in the hobby for FUN knowing that they will probably never have that chance at running for a manufacturer, so they focused on having fun and hanging out with their friends.
Just my thought
-some call them toy car, some call them race cars
-some see it as a hobby, and some see it as a sport.
-some think RC can go mainstream some dont
-some do it for a living and MOST dont.
Herrsavage - You are giving number for the top of the line products. I agree that the hobby is expensive. I agree most people don't need a $400 engine, but that isn't the consumers only option. Companies make RTR cars that are better than they have ever been for a reasonable price. Motor companies make good motors for a lot less than $400.
for example, Just because i want to buy a bicycle doesn't mean I need the same one the Tour De France winner has.
IMO the thing that is hurting the hobby is the amount of sponsorships out there. People get into the hobby and once they get their feet wet, they chase a sponsorship. which is some 50% deal from a crappy car that basically take the local hobby shop out of the equation. This also makes everyone at the club races way more serious so they can post their sportsman club race win on Facebook the next morning. Now this "sponsored" drive gets frustrated and quits because the car he is running a crap and he has spent thousands of dollars (because he feels like he has to because he is a "sponsored") After a while hobby shops will be gone and who is going to help the guy that wants to get in the hobby now? The local hobby shop that doesn't exist? Or the "sponsored" driver that has one year under his belt? unfortunately its a bad cycle that i don't think is going away
Before all these 50% sponsorship existed those people were in the hobby for FUN knowing that they will probably never have that chance at running for a manufacturer, so they focused on having fun and hanging out with their friends.
Just my thought
06-22-2016, 07:50 AM
#58
Tech Master
iTrader: (6)
I think debates like this are interesting because people in our hobby want such different things out of it.
-some call them toy car, some call them race cars
-some see it as a hobby, and some see it as a sport.
-some think RC can go mainstream some dont
-some do it for a living and MOST dont.
Herrsavage - You are giving number for the top of the line products. I agree that the hobby is expensive. I agree most people don't need a $400 engine, but that isn't the consumers only option. Companies make RTR cars that are better than they have ever been for a reasonable price. Motor companies make good motors for a lot less than $400.
for example, Just because i want to buy a bicycle doesn't mean I need the same one the Tour De France winner has.
IMO the thing that is hurting the hobby is the amount of sponsorships out there. People get into the hobby and once they get their feet wet, they chase a sponsorship. which is some 50% deal from a crappy car that basically take the local hobby shop out of the equation. This also makes everyone at the club races way more serious so they can post their sportsman club race win on Facebook the next morning. Now this "sponsored" drive gets frustrated and quits because the car he is running a crap and he has spent thousands of dollars (because he feels like he has to because he is a "sponsored") After a while hobby shops will be gone and who is going to help the guy that wants to get in the hobby now? The local hobby shop that doesn't exist? Or the "sponsored" driver that has one year under his belt? unfortunately its a bad cycle that i don't think is going away
Before all these 50% sponsorship existed those people were in the hobby for FUN knowing that they will probably never have that chance at running for a manufacturer, so they focused on having fun and hanging out with their friends.
Just my thought
-some call them toy car, some call them race cars
-some see it as a hobby, and some see it as a sport.
-some think RC can go mainstream some dont
-some do it for a living and MOST dont.
Herrsavage - You are giving number for the top of the line products. I agree that the hobby is expensive. I agree most people don't need a $400 engine, but that isn't the consumers only option. Companies make RTR cars that are better than they have ever been for a reasonable price. Motor companies make good motors for a lot less than $400.
for example, Just because i want to buy a bicycle doesn't mean I need the same one the Tour De France winner has.
IMO the thing that is hurting the hobby is the amount of sponsorships out there. People get into the hobby and once they get their feet wet, they chase a sponsorship. which is some 50% deal from a crappy car that basically take the local hobby shop out of the equation. This also makes everyone at the club races way more serious so they can post their sportsman club race win on Facebook the next morning. Now this "sponsored" drive gets frustrated and quits because the car he is running a crap and he has spent thousands of dollars (because he feels like he has to because he is a "sponsored") After a while hobby shops will be gone and who is going to help the guy that wants to get in the hobby now? The local hobby shop that doesn't exist? Or the "sponsored" driver that has one year under his belt? unfortunately its a bad cycle that i don't think is going away
Before all these 50% sponsorship existed those people were in the hobby for FUN knowing that they will probably never have that chance at running for a manufacturer, so they focused on having fun and hanging out with their friends.
Just my thought
06-22-2016, 08:06 AM
#59
What hobby isn't a money pit? 15 years ago I was paying 100.00 for a match 6 cell 1700 Nicad battery pack. That you run once and it is done. Now you buy 6500 90c Lipo packs for 80.00 and they can run all day. 15 years ago there were still 600.00 engines. Kyosho has always been expensive. Find me a hobby that doesn't cost you at least 2 grand(that's fun).
06-22-2016, 08:43 AM
#60
Sounds to me like your problem is your mentality. Do you want to compete or participate as a hobbiest. They are 2 dofferent things in any sport that requires you to go fast. Sorry but thats how it is. If you want to compete, you have to spend cash, just like someone going to a track and wants to go fast, you drop cash on a car. Or do you want to be a hobbiest, in which case you buy the cheaper engines, servos, transmitter etc and accept that unless youre very good, youre unlikely to compete with the drivers of equal skill but greater budget, just like the guys who go to a track with a stock car. You cant be both and until you decide youll always be unhappy
All that said I don't think this hobby is much more expensive than it was 15 years ago honestly. What I do believe is that you don't see near as many young people involved and that will be its ultimate demise. Why do you think so many companies regardless of what retail industry target young people. Look at soft drinks and snack foods. Do they target older generations? No, they did that generations ago and got life long customers out of it, they always target the younger generations. Plus kids are easier to influence. Race kit manufacturers seems to have a Depends undergarment mentality. Target the older portion of the hobby by using technical mumbo jumbo instead of fun. Why do you think Traxxas has done so well? Because they put right on the box in big bold letters 60+MPH! Fast is fun! And ready to run! Right now if fun! Like it or not for rc racing to grow you have to find a way to draw in the right now generation and hope you can keep their interest once you get them. That was the draw of short course trucks when they blew up. It was all about the fun and it was ok to race a Traxxas. Then it got all technical mumbo jumboized... to the point that nobody hardly runs SC trucks anymore.
Just my .02 rant.