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Kyosho Inferno MP9 TKI4 1/8 Buggy Kit

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Kyosho Inferno MP9 TKI4 1/8 Buggy Kit

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Old 11-05-2018, 09:06 AM   -   Wikipost
R/C Tech ForumsThread Wiki: Kyosho Inferno MP9 TKI4 1/8 Buggy Kit
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Last edit by: 30Tooth
Picked up a TKI3 and want to upgrade to TKI4 ? Here are all the updated parts:

Shocks

IF347-155 1.5X5 Pistons
IF471-01 Front Shock Body
IF470-01 Rear Shock Body
IF470-03BK Shock Adjust Dial
IFW154 Boots
IF346-05C Shock End Set

Wing

IF491BK Wing
IFW460B Wing Mount/Stay

Rear End

IFH006W Wheel
IF490 HUB
IF490-01 Hub Insert
IF492 Shock Pin
IF423HB Rear Arm
IF287 Hard Upper Rod Rear

Front End

IF489 Steering Rod Set
IF488 Knuckles
IF487H Front Arm
IFW458 Hard Lower Pin
IFW425 93MM CVD
IF286 Hard Upper Rod
IF486 Lower Susp Holder
IFW459 Servo Saver (Hard)
IF446B Ackerman Arm
IF426-64.5 Susp Shaft


Other

IF469B Filter
97035LW-13 Clutch Bell
IF453B Body Mount
IFW107GM Hexes
W300910 Washer
IF443B Center Diff Plate
IF444C Tank
IF479B Radio Box
96772 13x16x0.15mm Shim
IF481B Fuel Tank Stay
IFW336GM Wheelnut
IFB008 TKI4 Body
IFD403W TKI4 Decal

---------------------------

Another option if you want TKI4 Durability but TKI3 geometry of the front arm is :

IF493 Front Arm (Updated MP9 front arms replaces IF427B as a direct fit. Left and right.)

They use the older TKI3 captured outer hinge pin and screw. But if you just reem out the the outer hole you can use TKI hinge-pin/nut (IFW458)
---------------------------

Optional Updates / New Parts:

IFW469 IFW469 Aeration Cap Set(Threaded Big Shock/MP9)

IFW473 New Brake Pads (Sept 2017)

Optional Alu front hubs:
- IFW412 - 13 deg (like stock plastic ones)
- IFW436 - 16 deg
- IFW474 - 17.5 deg
- IFW461 - 19deg

M2C 1mm engine spacer: M2C9610

Body Options
New Bitty Force Body

Tebo's Build Videos

Video #1

Video #2

Video #3

Video #4

Video #5

Video #6

Original Kyosho MP9 TKI Thread
_____________________

Baseline setups from Joonas.




_____________________

Shock build with vented cap and compensator.

You have to use the HC diaphragms (if346-09,stock TKI3 and if not mistaken TKI4 too, yes the thin ones no one likes), aeration caps without the bleeder screw or mod the stock caps by drilling a 1.5 or 2mm hole on the top facing up or at an angle (doesn't matter the size or angle, it just for bleeding pressure behind the diaphragm and allow the foam compensator to breathe) and a 10mm width x 3.5mm height dome shaped foam compensator made from old open cell inserts or dishwasher sponge. The foam compensator has to be soft enough not to add rebound but allow the diaphragm to regain it's shape.

Setup Sheet and Tuning

The setup sheet is getting crowded with all options but don't worry once you get acquainted with the parts will make sense.
Run the car as is, more than probably you won't need anything else. Using my setup as an example:

Diff gear has two options, normal and LSD. LSD stands for limited slip differential and is like using thick oils because you can't tune coast from locked.

Shock setup is a bit more confusing, you have two shock body sizes (S and M and truggy sized rear shocks that only the first version had so forget this one), three types of pistons (flat holes and surfaces, flat holes tapered surface and tapered holes with tapered surface): tapered have most pack, then black(simple piston) and then white because length of the holes. Then you have different length springs to account for different shock sizes, for a standard wheelbase/no weights car a good combo is Light Blue front and Orange rear, if you extend the wheelbase then I expect the included Light Blue rear springs be money instead of Orange.

Ride height is self explanatory, start always with lower arms parallel because good suspension geometry will be far easier to achieve. Rebound is used as total shock length no idea why they call it rebound, either use total shock length or maximum exposed shock shaft length. Camber self explanatory, run more camber in the front than the rear to make the car oversteer and more rear than front to make it understeer(grossly oversimplified).

Toe same deal as camber(again grossly oversimplified) but this you have to run the least amount you can. I use around 2-2.5 on my cars, never more as I can find traction by other means with way less impact on performance.

Wheelbase is a powerful setting, changes a lot of stuff. Let's just say that it can make the car behave neutral or not in that small range. Try for yourself. I like to use the longest setting and tune from there.

Shock position self explanatory, something most don't change and I don't play around with it. I do have a method but involves much work (with the car bottomed out, see which position places the shock 90 to the lower arm and then chose spring from a couple equations and bam done, I can do it easily so anyone interested just ask.

Rear upper arm position is again an important setting, you change both camber gain and roll centre. The rear roll centre should be higher than the front, that's why I use the middle hole inner row as a starting setup.

Suspension arm, self explanatory: there are two different length arms and each has a hard and a normal flex plastic.

Front suspension bushing is for upper arm alignment, also same deal as rear upper arm position changes both camber gain and roll centre.

Suspension holder is for kick up (pro dive is the correct naming). I believe tki4 9 of kick up to be better than 9 of kick up using the tki3 parts because you can run the car lower (26mm front ride height) and use the +2mm front shock tower if there's too much camber gain or it's stiff in roll. So use +2mm lowered roll centre to keep most stuff unchanged or use the bushings with the dot up to lower the roll centre a bit more, doesn't hurt anything.

Front hub carrier, self explanatory. I am trying to use the out hole on top of the carrier as it is better during braking and accelerating. Together with the higher front roll centre on the tki4 should provide enough camber gain during cornering if not then more caster will do.

Rear roll centre and anti squat(wrongly called skid angle). Again same thinking as the front, lower the car and keep roll centre in the same height as before(that will need a change in upper arm position which my setup does). Anti squat is changed only if the pitching motion causes too much camber to be gained by the rear tires on power, nothing more.

Front knuckle, apparently there's a difference in the Ackerman arm. Can't say anything about them as I don't know enough about both.

Rear hub carrier,there is one made of plastic (which doesn't have offset apparently so it's suited to long arm setting) and three aluminium versions. One similar to the plastic one, other with offset and a new one with offset and adjustable hub height.

Rear tread can be used as arm length and outboard toe(never seen it being used but the possibility is there). Longer is better most of the time (only on really low traction).

Chassis brace, wheel hub, sway bars and weight are self explanatory. No need to use weights nor other hubs. A couple of roll bars would be a nice addition. About the aluminium braces I am torn, I guess the car doesn't need flex with this setup but won't recommend the stiffer braces but the lower engine mount is very nice to deal with flex around the clutch.

Wing and wing stay are like the d81x had regarding height and position. The wing should be as low and have free airflow as possible.

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Old 10-23-2016, 05:31 PM
  #796  
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Originally Posted by HaulinBass
Lol the inline fuel filter isn't really a filter at all just a place to hold extra fuel. If anything is small enough to make it through the brass filter in the tank a little mesh screen isn't going to stop anything.
I stopped running them altogether as it's just another spot a leak or failure can happen
I have completely no idea how Kyosho tank' internals looks like. All i know is it hasn't clunk. Does it have any brass filtering stone - i simply don't know.

And about losi filters: i already have Outerwears prefilter (and some new filters) for that barrel type of filters, and i don't want to throw it away and spend extra ~20 bucks for Kyo-style prefilter. TBH i think L-style air filter gonna be industry standard in next few years (like 25T spline for servos becoming now).
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Old 10-23-2016, 07:33 PM
  #797  
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100% theres a small brass or stone filter in the tank. its the dark spot when you look at your tank from the bottom
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Old 10-23-2016, 10:14 PM
  #798  
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Another question:what about kickup/caster on TKI4 vs TKI3?
From what i've found here and there (may be completely wrong):
- Stock TKI3 kickup w/inserts: 11deg, have no idea what range inserts could give
- Stock TKI4 kickup w/inserts: 5 deg, no idea
- Stock TKI3 & 4 hubs - 13 deg, w/ +1 and -1 adj.
- Option alu hubs: 16,19 deg., w/ +1, -1 adj.

And finally, conclusion about using 19deg. blocks along with TKI4 B-plate
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Old 10-24-2016, 03:38 AM
  #799  
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A TKI4 with 19* hubs have close actual caster as a TKI3 with the 16* hubs, provided both use the base setup. The kick up inserts produce 2* of change depending of the direction, so 9* and 11* on the TKI3 and possibly 9* and 6* on the TKI4.

Last edited by 30Tooth; 12-07-2016 at 06:37 AM. Reason: Corrected TKI4 angle mistake
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Old 10-24-2016, 07:43 AM
  #800  
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Originally Posted by AZRC4Me View Post
If you run 9deg kickup w/ -1 caster on the standard knuckles, you would have 9+13-1 = 21deg total caster. Here are the different caster setups you can run:

9 Kickup / 13 Knuckle / -1 / 0 / +1 Knuckle insert = 21 / 22 / 23 total caster

11 Kickup / 13 Knuckle / -1 / 0 / +1 Knuckle insert = 23 / 24 / 25 total caster

9 Kickup / 16 Knuckle / -1 / 0 / +1 Knuckle insert = 24 / 25 / 26 total caster

11 Kickup / 16 Knuckle / -1 / 0 / +1 Knuckle insert = 26 / 27 / 28 total caster

And no, the car will not handle the same if you run different kickup but still have the same total caster.
Here's a chart showing what possible caster setups you can run with the MP9 front geometry. These will all have different handling traits, meaning just because your total caster is the same doesn't necessarily mean it will handle the same. Box stock is the following:

11 Kickup / 13 Knuckle / 0 / Knuckle insert = 24 total caster
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Old 10-24-2016, 07:47 AM
  #801  
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So do you take off - 2 for Tki4 front kick up?
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Old 10-24-2016, 06:00 PM
  #802  
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So, looks like pure _base_ kickup (w/o inserts) is 10deg. for TKI3 and 6 deg. for TKI4, giving us 9/11 and 5/7 hingepin kickup.
There we have:
- 9/11 plus 12/13/14 cast.blocks makes 21/22/23/24/25 total k+c on TKI3
- 5/7 plus 18/19/20 cast.blocks makes 23/24/25/26/27 total k+c on TKI4
I'm not talking about using 13deg. block on TKI4, i'm just trying to clarify "19 is new 13" paradigm here:
- Less kickup gives less weight transfer => more responsive, thats good for hi-grip tracks.
- Same amount of overall caster makes car not so twitchy and usable on low-grip/bumpy tracks.
- And new 5x1.5 pistons brings weight transfer back a bit.
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Old 10-25-2016, 12:46 AM
  #803  
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Wow, tryin'a read through that and keep up with it nearly sent me into an aneurysm. Personally, i highly recommend running stock first and then making changes as needed, not in relation to what the old vs new geometry was
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Old 10-25-2016, 12:59 AM
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I just said the caster was similar I didn't said what did what.
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Old 10-25-2016, 08:16 AM
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I see all the information on the degree versions of kick up and caster; if one goes to the 19* hubs, how would you go to max kickup to calm the car a bit? In other words, what pills would go where?
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Old 10-25-2016, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Spads11
I see all the information on the degree versions of kick up and caster; if one goes to the 19* hubs, how would you go to max kickup to calm the car a bit? In other words, what pills would go where?




7 Kickup / 19 Knuckle / -1 / 0 / +1 Knuckle insert = 26 / 27 / 28 total caster TKI4

Take out the 11 and put in 7
Take out the 9 and put in 5
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Old 10-25-2016, 09:32 AM
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You rock, thank you!
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Old 10-25-2016, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Spads11
I see all the information on the degree versions of kick up and caster; if one goes to the 19* hubs, how would you go to max kickup to calm the car a bit? In other words, what pills would go where?
also if you do the tkI3 kick up plate like i see from the Team guys

- 9/11 plus 18/19/20 cast.blocks makes / -1 / 0 / +1 Knuckle insert 30/31/32 total k+c on TKI3 Max I believe this is right
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Old 10-25-2016, 10:22 AM
  #809  
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Most if not all the team drivers have been went
Back to the old b plate. That's what will smoothin things out
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Old 10-25-2016, 10:29 PM
  #810  
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Its not all abaout castor, you need to take the rollenter into the equation too..With the TKI4 front plate you raise the lower hingepin and that gives you less front end grip in theory. So, while you castor decrease and gives you more steering, rasing the hingepin gives you a bit less steering, its a compromise, giving the TKI4 a bit more steering than the TKI3.
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