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Kyosho Inferno MP9 TKI4 1/8 Buggy Kit

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Kyosho Inferno MP9 TKI4 1/8 Buggy Kit

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Old 03-20-2018, 04:05 PM   -   Wikipost
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Last edit by: 30Tooth
Picked up a TKI3 and want to upgrade to TKI4 ? Here are all the updated parts:

Shocks

IF347-155 1.5X5 Pistons
IF471-01 Front Shock Body
IF470-01 Rear Shock Body
IF470-03BK Shock Adjust Dial
IFW154 Boots
IF346-05C Shock End Set

Wing

IF491BK Wing
IFW460B Wing Mount/Stay

Rear End

IFH006W Wheel
IF490 HUB
IF490-01 Hub Insert
IF492 Shock Pin
IF423HB Rear Arm
IF287 Hard Upper Rod Rear

Front End

IF489 Steering Rod Set
IF488 Knuckles
IF487H Front Arm
IFW458 Hard Lower Pin
IFW425 93MM CVD
IF286 Hard Upper Rod
IF486 Lower Susp Holder
IFW459 Servo Saver (Hard)
IF446B Ackerman Arm
IF426-64.5 Susp Shaft


Other

IF469B Filter
97035LW-13 Clutch Bell
IF453B Body Mount
IFW107GM Hexes
W300910 Washer
IF443B Center Diff Plate
IF444C Tank
IF479B Radio Box
96772 13x16x0.15mm Shim
IF481B Fuel Tank Stay
IFW336GM Wheelnut
IFB008 TKI4 Body
IFD403W TKI4 Decal

---------------------------

Another option if you want TKI4 Durability but TKI3 geometry of the front arm is :

IF493 Front Arm (Updated MP9 front arms replaces IF427B as a direct fit. Left and right.)

They use the older TKI3 captured outer hinge pin and screw. But if you just reem out the the outer hole you can use TKI hinge-pin/nut (IFW458)
---------------------------

Optional Updates / New Parts:

IFW469 IFW469 Aeration Cap Set(Threaded Big Shock/MP9)

IFW473 New Brake Pads (Sept 2017)

Optional Alu front hubs:
- IFW412 - 13 deg (like stock plastic ones)
- IFW436 - 16 deg
- IFW474 - 17.5 deg
- IFW461 - 19deg

M2C 1mm engine spacer: M2C9610

Body Options

New Bitty Force Body

Tebo's Build Videos

Video #1

Video #2

Video #3

Video #4

Video #5

Video #6

Original Kyosho MP9 TKI Thread
_____________________

Baseline setups from Joonas.




_____________________

Shock build with vented cap and compensator.

You have to use the HC diaphragms (if346-09,stock TKI3 and if not mistaken TKI4 too, yes the thin ones no one likes), aeration caps without the bleeder screw or mod the stock caps by drilling a 1.5 or 2mm hole on the top facing up or at an angle (doesn't matter the size or angle, it just for bleeding pressure behind the diaphragm and allow the foam compensator to breathe) and a 10mm width x 3.5mm height dome shaped foam compensator made from old open cell inserts or dishwasher sponge. The foam compensator has to be soft enough not to add rebound but allow the diaphragm to regain it's shape.

Setup Sheet and Tuning


The setup sheet is getting crowded with all options but don't worry once you get acquainted with the parts will make sense.
Run the car as is, more than probably you won't need anything else. Using my setup as an example:

Diff gear has two options, normal and LSD. LSD stands for limited slip differential and is like using thick oils because you can't tune coast from locked.

Shock setup is a bit more confusing, you have two shock body sizes (S and M and truggy sized rear shocks that only the first version had so forget this one), three types of pistons (flat holes and surfaces, flat holes tapered surface and tapered holes with tapered surface): tapered have most pack, then black(simple piston) and then white because length of the holes. Then you have different length springs to account for different shock sizes, for a standard wheelbase/no weights car a good combo is Light Blue front and Orange rear, if you extend the wheelbase then I expect the included Light Blue rear springs be money instead of Orange.

Ride height is self explanatory, start always with lower arms parallel because good suspension geometry will be far easier to achieve. Rebound is used as total shock length no idea why they call it rebound, either use total shock length or maximum exposed shock shaft length. Camber self explanatory, run more camber in the front than the rear to make the car oversteer and more rear than front to make it understeer(grossly oversimplified).

Toe same deal as camber(again grossly oversimplified) but this you have to run the least amount you can. I use around 2-2.5 on my cars, never more as I can find traction by other means with way less impact on performance.

Wheelbase is a powerful setting, changes a lot of stuff. Let's just say that it can make the car behave neutral or not in that small range. Try for yourself. I like to use the longest setting and tune from there.

Shock position self explanatory, something most don't change and I don't play around with it. I do have a method but involves much work (with the car bottomed out, see which position places the shock 90 to the lower arm and then chose spring from a couple equations and bam done, I can do it easily so anyone interested just ask.

Rear upper arm position is again an important setting, you change both camber gain and roll centre. The rear roll centre should be higher than the front, that's why I use the middle hole inner row as a starting setup.

Suspension arm, self explanatory: there are two different length arms and each has a hard and a normal flex plastic.

Front suspension bushing is for upper arm alignment, also same deal as rear upper arm position changes both camber gain and roll centre.

Suspension holder is for kick up (pro dive is the correct naming). I believe tki4 9 of kick up to be better than 9 of kick up using the tki3 parts because you can run the car lower (26mm front ride height) and use the +2mm front shock tower if there's too much camber gain or it's stiff in roll. So use +2mm lowered roll centre to keep most stuff unchanged or use the bushings with the dot up to lower the roll centre a bit more, doesn't hurt anything.

Front hub carrier, self explanatory. I am trying to use the out hole on top of the carrier as it is better during braking and accelerating. Together with the higher front roll centre on the tki4 should provide enough camber gain during cornering if not then more caster will do.

Rear roll centre and anti squat(wrongly called skid angle). Again same thinking as the front, lower the car and keep roll centre in the same height as before(that will need a change in upper arm position which my setup does). Anti squat is changed only if the pitching motion causes too much camber to be gained by the rear tires on power, nothing more.

Front knuckle, apparently there's a difference in the Ackerman arm. Can't say anything about them as I don't know enough about both.

Rear hub carrier,there is one made of plastic (which doesn't have offset apparently so it's suited to long arm setting) and three aluminium versions. One similar to the plastic one, other with offset and a new one with offset and adjustable hub height.

Rear tread can be used as arm length and outboard toe(never seen it being used but the possibility is there). Longer is better most of the time (only on really low traction).

Chassis brace, wheel hub, sway bars and weight are self explanatory. No need to use weights nor other hubs. A couple of roll bars would be a nice addition. About the aluminium braces I am torn, I guess the car doesn't need flex with this setup but won't recommend the stiffer braces but the lower engine mount is very nice to deal with flex around the clutch.

Wing and wing stay are like the d81x had regarding height and position. The wing should be as low and have free airflow as possible.

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Old 07-10-2018, 03:29 PM
  #2671  
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Originally Posted by iplaygames View Post
houston, now that the ackerman plate is public and combined with say the 17.5 or 19 deg hubs on a tki4, do you think this will create a faster feeling tki3 setup?

My view of the new plate is more about whether they've improved the linkages and taken some of the slop out of the steering pins. Close ups of the pictures appears to show some modification. As for "ackerman" plate you can change the position on the plate (forward hole will increase toe-out / more pro-ackerman) but only if you don't adjust the steering rods. Doing so will counter the change made on the plate. The EVO itself is interesting, it's a pretty big departure from the TKI4 nitro in terms of centre diff positioning and pushing forward the steering cranks. Most WRC run bias toward the front wheels say 60:40, given we don't have effective torque converters, moving the diff as far forward is perhaps a crude way of pushing more torque to the front wheels, as well as the additional weight countering lift during acceleration and providing more weight over the steering. These changes has nothing really to do with electric but what better way to test a new platform than to race it in plain sight. My take is we are looking at the platform of the next nitro - IFMAR Worlds in November perhaps?
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Old 07-10-2018, 11:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Matty A View Post
My view of the new plate is more about whether they've improved the linkages and taken some of the slop out of the steering pins. Close ups of the pictures appears to show some modification. As for "ackerman" plate you can change the position on the plate (forward hole will increase toe-out / more pro-ackerman) but only if you don't adjust the steering rods. Doing so will counter the change made on the plate. The EVO itself is interesting, it's a pretty big departure from the TKI4 nitro in terms of centre diff positioning and pushing forward the steering cranks. Most WRC run bias toward the front wheels say 60:40, given we don't have effective torque converters, moving the diff as far forward is perhaps a crude way of pushing more torque to the front wheels, as well as the additional weight countering lift during acceleration and providing more weight over the steering. These changes has nothing really to do with electric but what better way to test a new platform than to race it in plain sight. My take is we are looking at the platform of the next nitro - IFMAR Worlds in November perhaps?
have you ever driven a slopped out mp9? oddly handled quite well and could be pushed really hard because of the slop lol

Cody king's dad paul actually said this is a reason why cody did better later on in events.

i dont see them moving the weight that far forward on the nitro car - we've already seen the response from pro's regarding "corner speed" increase, is the current kyosho platform at the end of its life?
i wouldve thought the tki3 might of been the end, a really good balanced car anyone can drive and setup. time for something new?

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Old 07-12-2018, 08:25 AM
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Default Difference of 403B and 404B dif cases vs 403 and 404

Hi everyone!

Do you know what is the difference between the new diff cases 403B and 404B included in the TKI4 10th aniversary?

Thanks a lot!
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Old 07-12-2018, 12:29 PM
  #2674  
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Originally Posted by kurobox View Post
Hi everyone!

Do you know what is the difference between the new diff cases 403B and 404B included in the TKI4 10th aniversary?

Thanks a lot!
the only difference i believe is they are more stringent on how well the metal insert and plastic case are mated in the moulding process . hopefully the newer B versions do not leak

there is no major design change or anything of the sort
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Old 07-14-2018, 11:48 PM
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Hey everyone, do you guys know if these: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Fioroni-OT-LIC40-Hot-Bodies-D8-LIC-Lightweight-CVD-Kit-2/381899643108?hash=item58eafe18e4%3Ag%3AQCMAAOSwImR YYZOS&_sacat=0&_nkw=fioroni+d8&_from=R40&rt=nc&_tr ksid=m570.l1313

will fit a TKI3?

If Hot Bodies dont fit do associated ones or any others fit?

Last edited by sn47som1; 07-15-2018 at 12:30 AM.
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Old 07-15-2018, 01:35 AM
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Originally Posted by sn47som1 View Post
Hey everyone, do you guys know if these: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Fioroni-OT-...sid=m570.l1313

will fit a TKI3?

If Hot Bodies dont fit do associated ones or any others fit?
why do you want to run these?
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Old 07-15-2018, 06:30 AM
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The nitro car was already competitive new or worn in. Im doing very well with a nearly two year old car. The chassis looks like crap but it is still straight which is more than I can say for other cars.

Other than adding quick change diffs and going back to the tki3 geometry I dont think I would change anything.

Now the Ebuggy needed at least a change to lower the battery and the truggy never moved to the newer platform. The Ebuggy problems are addressed and I am going to get one. Waiting to see if they ever fix the truck.
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Old 07-15-2018, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by windellmc View Post
The nitro car was already competitive new or worn in. I’m doing very well with a nearly two year old car. The chassis looks like crap but it is still straight which is more than I can say for other cars.

Other than adding quick change diffs and going back to the tki3 geometry I don’t think I would change anything.

Now the Ebuggy needed at least a change to lower the battery and the truggy never moved to the newer platform. The Ebuggy problems are addressed and I am going to get one. Waiting to see if they ever fix the truck.
only real issue with the ebuggy was how high the battery was. They are trying to change the buggy layout and using ebuggy as that platfom to make the tki4 parts work(seeing as most people have switched to tki3 front end.)

Whats wrong with getting the battery straps etc drilling holes in an old chassis and using that? i dont believe the evo was needed but more of just updating the mp9e tki.
more weight up front with a now unbalanced side to side/front to back layout BUT changing the chassis to HA and using the new ackerman plate is ok.

tki4 front end with the new ackerman plate and 17.5 hubs
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Old 07-15-2018, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by iplaygames View Post
only real issue with the ebuggy was how high the battery was. They are trying to change the buggy layout and using ebuggy as that platfom to make the tki4 parts work(seeing as most people have switched to tki3 front end.)

Whats wrong with getting the battery straps etc drilling holes in an old chassis and using that? i dont believe the evo was needed but more of just updating the mp9e tki.
more weight up front with a now unbalanced side to side/front to back layout BUT changing the chassis to HA and using the new ackerman plate is ok.

tki4 front end with the new ackerman plate and 17.5 hubs
battery went back and motor and esc moved up. Not sure if the weight balance is that different. Motor is now where the nitro motor would be.
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Old 07-15-2018, 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by iplaygames View Post
why do you want to run these?
There are multiple benifits to lightening a car especially the drivetrain. less wear on all parts except the axles and shafts, more fuel mileage, faster car bottom to top, better braking, more responsive handling, list goes on....
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Old 07-15-2018, 09:01 PM
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Originally Posted by sn47som1 View Post
There are multiple benifits to lightening a car especially the drivetrain. less wear on all parts except the axles and shafts, more fuel mileage, faster car bottom to top, better braking, more responsive handling, list goes on....
but your changing to CVD's a decent change in how the suspension works, from what i can tell kyosho stopped selling them because it didnt work on the mp9.
also those alloy ones will wear very quick, your money would be better spent on genuine kyosho bearings to free the driveline up.
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Old 07-16-2018, 01:50 AM
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Originally Posted by iplaygames View Post
but your changing to CVD's a decent change in how the suspension works, from what i can tell kyosho stopped selling them because it didnt work on the mp9.
also those alloy ones will wear very quick, your money would be better spent on genuine kyosho bearings to free the driveline up.
Hmm it isn't about freeing the driveline lol as that's already free as can be with of course kyosho bearings. It's not about smoothing or freeing anything- it's about LIGHTENING the driveline for faster spool = faster car.
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Old 07-16-2018, 08:45 AM
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I am always looking for ways to slow down the punch for slick tracks. If you want to save fuel you need to reduce wheel spin. Aluminum cvas are not great for 1/8 especially the kyosho which has always been designed to run universals.
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Old 07-16-2018, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by sn47som1 View Post
Hmm it isn't about freeing the driveline lol as that's already free as can be with of course kyosho bearings. It's not about smoothing or freeing anything- it's about LIGHTENING the driveline for faster spool = faster car.
a really free driveline will act like a lighted driveline in terms of what your trying to achieve..."lol" just go buy CVDS to lighten up your driveline since you know best just dont forget how much they effect the mp9... they will also wear quickly. if just making it lighter made the car faster im sure all those other brands wouldve done it by now "lol"
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Old 07-16-2018, 04:29 PM
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Not sure aluminium CVDs would noticeably reduce inertia in the drive train. 22 grams is a blip on a 3200 gram buggy. Also, the driveshafts are at the end of a gear reduced drive train. To make a difference I reckon you'd need to look closer to the motor mainly flywheel or spur gear - plastic from an inferno RTR?? As per above metal shielded ceramic bearings (or if you're really daring unshielded) with high speed oil would reduce friction and I'd say have more influence than these lightweight CVDs - friction is just as critical to weight. But, all that aside the major drawback on the shafts you've listed is the recommendation they only be used for competition due to excessive wear. Swapping these between qualifying and mains would be a PITA or leaving them in and replacing more often at $75 a throw per pair would add up, not to mention the potential for a DNF should they fail.
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