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Kyosho Inferno MP9 TKI4 1/8 Buggy Kit

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Kyosho Inferno MP9 TKI4 1/8 Buggy Kit

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Old 11-05-2018, 09:06 AM   -   Wikipost
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Last edit by: 30Tooth
Picked up a TKI3 and want to upgrade to TKI4 ? Here are all the updated parts:

Shocks

IF347-155 1.5X5 Pistons
IF471-01 Front Shock Body
IF470-01 Rear Shock Body
IF470-03BK Shock Adjust Dial
IFW154 Boots
IF346-05C Shock End Set

Wing

IF491BK Wing
IFW460B Wing Mount/Stay

Rear End

IFH006W Wheel
IF490 HUB
IF490-01 Hub Insert
IF492 Shock Pin
IF423HB Rear Arm
IF287 Hard Upper Rod Rear

Front End

IF489 Steering Rod Set
IF488 Knuckles
IF487H Front Arm
IFW458 Hard Lower Pin
IFW425 93MM CVD
IF286 Hard Upper Rod
IF486 Lower Susp Holder
IFW459 Servo Saver (Hard)
IF446B Ackerman Arm
IF426-64.5 Susp Shaft


Other

IF469B Filter
97035LW-13 Clutch Bell
IF453B Body Mount
IFW107GM Hexes
W300910 Washer
IF443B Center Diff Plate
IF444C Tank
IF479B Radio Box
96772 13x16x0.15mm Shim
IF481B Fuel Tank Stay
IFW336GM Wheelnut
IFB008 TKI4 Body
IFD403W TKI4 Decal

---------------------------

Another option if you want TKI4 Durability but TKI3 geometry of the front arm is :

IF493 Front Arm (Updated MP9 front arms replaces IF427B as a direct fit. Left and right.)

They use the older TKI3 captured outer hinge pin and screw. But if you just reem out the the outer hole you can use TKI hinge-pin/nut (IFW458)
---------------------------

Optional Updates / New Parts:

IFW469 IFW469 Aeration Cap Set(Threaded Big Shock/MP9)

IFW473 New Brake Pads (Sept 2017)

Optional Alu front hubs:
- IFW412 - 13 deg (like stock plastic ones)
- IFW436 - 16 deg
- IFW474 - 17.5 deg
- IFW461 - 19deg

M2C 1mm engine spacer: M2C9610

Body Options
New Bitty Force Body

Tebo's Build Videos

Video #1

Video #2

Video #3

Video #4

Video #5

Video #6

Original Kyosho MP9 TKI Thread
_____________________

Baseline setups from Joonas.




_____________________

Shock build with vented cap and compensator.

You have to use the HC diaphragms (if346-09,stock TKI3 and if not mistaken TKI4 too, yes the thin ones no one likes), aeration caps without the bleeder screw or mod the stock caps by drilling a 1.5 or 2mm hole on the top facing up or at an angle (doesn't matter the size or angle, it just for bleeding pressure behind the diaphragm and allow the foam compensator to breathe) and a 10mm width x 3.5mm height dome shaped foam compensator made from old open cell inserts or dishwasher sponge. The foam compensator has to be soft enough not to add rebound but allow the diaphragm to regain it's shape.

Setup Sheet and Tuning

The setup sheet is getting crowded with all options but don't worry once you get acquainted with the parts will make sense.
Run the car as is, more than probably you won't need anything else. Using my setup as an example:

Diff gear has two options, normal and LSD. LSD stands for limited slip differential and is like using thick oils because you can't tune coast from locked.

Shock setup is a bit more confusing, you have two shock body sizes (S and M and truggy sized rear shocks that only the first version had so forget this one), three types of pistons (flat holes and surfaces, flat holes tapered surface and tapered holes with tapered surface): tapered have most pack, then black(simple piston) and then white because length of the holes. Then you have different length springs to account for different shock sizes, for a standard wheelbase/no weights car a good combo is Light Blue front and Orange rear, if you extend the wheelbase then I expect the included Light Blue rear springs be money instead of Orange.

Ride height is self explanatory, start always with lower arms parallel because good suspension geometry will be far easier to achieve. Rebound is used as total shock length no idea why they call it rebound, either use total shock length or maximum exposed shock shaft length. Camber self explanatory, run more camber in the front than the rear to make the car oversteer and more rear than front to make it understeer(grossly oversimplified).

Toe same deal as camber(again grossly oversimplified) but this you have to run the least amount you can. I use around 2º-2.5º on my cars, never more as I can find traction by other means with way less impact on performance.

Wheelbase is a powerful setting, changes a lot of stuff. Let's just say that it can make the car behave neutral or not in that small range. Try for yourself. I like to use the longest setting and tune from there.

Shock position self explanatory, something most don't change and I don't play around with it. I do have a method but involves much work (with the car bottomed out, see which position places the shock 90º to the lower arm and then chose spring from a couple equations and bam done, I can do it easily so anyone interested just ask.

Rear upper arm position is again an important setting, you change both camber gain and roll centre. The rear roll centre should be higher than the front, that's why I use the middle hole inner row as a starting setup.

Suspension arm, self explanatory: there are two different length arms and each has a hard and a normal flex plastic.

Front suspension bushing is for upper arm alignment, also same deal as rear upper arm position changes both camber gain and roll centre.

Suspension holder is for kick up (pro dive is the correct naming). I believe tki4 9º of kick up to be better than 9º of kick up using the tki3 parts because you can run the car lower (26mm front ride height) and use the +2mm front shock tower if there's too much camber gain or it's stiff in roll. So use +2mm lowered roll centre to keep most stuff unchanged or use the bushings with the dot up to lower the roll centre a bit more, doesn't hurt anything.

Front hub carrier, self explanatory. I am trying to use the out hole on top of the carrier as it is better during braking and accelerating. Together with the higher front roll centre on the tki4 should provide enough camber gain during cornering if not then more caster will do.

Rear roll centre and anti squat(wrongly called skid angle). Again same thinking as the front, lower the car and keep roll centre in the same height as before(that will need a change in upper arm position which my setup does). Anti squat is changed only if the pitching motion causes too much camber to be gained by the rear tires on power, nothing more.

Front knuckle, apparently there's a difference in the Ackerman arm. Can't say anything about them as I don't know enough about both.

Rear hub carrier,there is one made of plastic (which doesn't have offset apparently so it's suited to long arm setting) and three aluminium versions. One similar to the plastic one, other with offset and a new one with offset and adjustable hub height.

Rear tread can be used as arm length and outboard toe(never seen it being used but the possibility is there). Longer is better most of the time (only on really low traction).

Chassis brace, wheel hub, sway bars and weight are self explanatory. No need to use weights nor other hubs. A couple of roll bars would be a nice addition. About the aluminium braces I am torn, I guess the car doesn't need flex with this setup but won't recommend the stiffer braces but the lower engine mount is very nice to deal with flex around the clutch.

Wing and wing stay are like the d81x had regarding height and position. The wing should be as low and have free airflow as possible.

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Old 12-14-2017, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by am
Your welcome. One thing i got to think abaout, check that you have the 93mm rear driveshafts. I can`t remember if i used 91 or 93mm drivshafts last time i used IF410. Just to be shure that your driveshafts won`t pop out if you decide testing it.
Yep, I'm running 93's and had checked before I picked up your post. But the heads up and info once again is most appreciated
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Old 12-15-2017, 07:22 AM
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Hello everyone!I just got back into the hobby after 6 years off!I had a TKi2 when I quit!Really loved it!I also read a lot of good things about the TK3 while during my off!So few months ago I decided to get Kyosho again to start with!Went and I got a TKI4 Nitro roller and a TKI4E .Had fun building it!I put a setup what the factory suggested!Beside I am very rusty both buggy felt very hard to drive so I decided changing setups!Took away steering ,went up on diff fluid (5-5-7) etc etc did help a little bit but still not where I want to be!Buggy still feels a little hard to drive!It’s just not the same forgiving as the TKi2 was!The gas mileage is bad too!OS speed with 2090 pipe max 8:30min.Same engine setup tuned by same guy on a different brand buggy gets 10:00min....But than few friends telling me to not chew myself up because Kyosho really moved to the wrong direction with the TKI4!Its totally different than a TKI3 what everyone loved!My response was than how come the Nationals won by this buggy than?They say bc the guy actually ran the TKI3 not the TKI4!
They also said (this is Ppl who actually good local racers and tried the TKI4) if I keep the TKI4 I gonna always wrenching and chasing setups all the time!Which I am not really happy about!
Question:-what’s the deal with the fuel mileage?Is it true to get worse with this buggy?
-was TKI3 really a better buggy?
-did the Nationals really won with TKI3?
Don’t bite my head off!
Looking for constructive answer!I am not here to bash Kyosho!Just want to clear the water!
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Old 12-15-2017, 08:03 AM
  #2178  
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Hi.

To get the same good feeling with the TKI4 as the TKI3 you need the TKI3 B-plate and 1,3x8 white pistons in the shocks. The B-plate is what makes the BIG differnece in theese two cars. I have not had the TKI2 so i don`t rember what rear hubs were on that car.

Put the TKI3 B-plate on and change the droop settings and the car is awesome! the diffoils you have put in makes the car worse. Use 5-5-3=easy to drive.

If you do not get more than 8:30 with the OS B2101 (if thats what you have) you are either HEAVY on your throttle or your engines is tuned wrong. I run on big tracks here in Norway and gets easely 10. Only car i know thats a fuelhog is the MBX6 and 7. The best car for fuel economy is the Losi 8ight, but thats the only thing good with that car, LOL :-)
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Old 12-15-2017, 08:16 AM
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You also might want to use the TKI3 steering knuckles. And if you want even a smoother steering feel, try the 16 degree aluminum c-hubs. Or if you don’t want to spend the coin on those, try the 17.5 degree plastic. There’s not a major difference in driving feel between the TKI3 and 4 other then a couple option parts that changes the feel.
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Old 12-15-2017, 09:50 AM
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Great info!Thank you!I do have the gunmetal 16 deg C-hub carrier.I did not know about the B plate!Can somebody stear my to a good setup sheet with the tk3 b plate?
Also I can’t remember if it was the pistons with the 1.3mm holes or not?I remember the one what I used was the white machined ones which came with the kit.
Thx again!
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Old 12-15-2017, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by rcmoe
You also might want to use the TKI3 steering knuckles. And if you want even a smoother steering feel, try the 16 degree aluminum c-hubs. Or if you don’t want to spend the coin on those, try the 17.5 degree plastic. There’s not a major difference in driving feel between the TKI3 and 4 other then a couple option parts that changes the feel.
TKI3 knuckles gives you more steering than the TKI4 knuckles because of the different ackerman. The easy car to drive is the TKI4 With TKI3 B-plate
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Old 12-15-2017, 10:44 AM
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Default B plate pills

Originally Posted by am
TKI3 knuckles gives you more steering than the TKI4 knuckles because of the different ackerman. The easy car to drive is the TKI4 With TKI3 B-plate
Which pills you using on the TKI3 b plate?Also what pills you using on the other plates?
Thx!
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Old 12-15-2017, 12:36 PM
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Default B plate pills

Originally Posted by am
TKI3 knuckles gives you more steering than the TKI4 knuckles because of the different ackerman. The easy car to drive is the TKI4 With TKI3 B-plate
Which pills you using on the TKI3 b plate?Also what pills you using on the other plates?
Thx!
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Old 12-15-2017, 12:41 PM
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I just won a race where I got 11min on my final pit running a Triton L3. I never ran a TKI3 but I don't feel the TKI4 is behind by any means. One thing I made sure not to do just yet was go to the TKI3 front pieces until I was totally comfortable with all stock TKI4 parts. Chasing that 10min fuel window will eat at you. I get 10+ minutes all the time while practicing but could get the same mileage in the main. Maybe I don't push it as hard in practice as I do in the main or if I crash I gas it while on my lid so that the marshal see's me. It can be a number of things that add to the reason of less mileage. I love this car compared to all that I came into Nitro just a little over a year ago. TLR 3.0, MBX7R, D815, TKI4.....AKA HAPPINESS
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Old 12-15-2017, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by am
TKI3 knuckles gives you more steering than the TKI4 knuckles because of the different ackerman. The easy car to drive is the TKI4 With TKI3 B-plate
Just because the 3 knuckles gives more steering doesn’t mean it makes it harder to drive. The 3 knuckles combined with the 16 degree hubs feels the best for ME. He can easily try both and see what’s best for him. My smoother feel reply was more towards the 16 degrees opposed to the 13 degree
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Old 12-15-2017, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by gabor szilagyi
Hello everyone!I just got back into the hobby after 6 years off!I had a TKi2 when I quit!Really loved it!I also read a lot of good things about the TK3 while during my off!So few months ago I decided to get Kyosho again to start with!Went and I got a TKI4 Nitro roller and a TKI4E .Had fun building it!I put a setup what the factory suggested!Beside I am very rusty both buggy felt very hard to drive so I decided changing setups!Took away steering ,went up on diff fluid (5-5-7) etc etc did help a little bit but still not where I want to be!Buggy still feels a little hard to drive!It’s just not the same forgiving as the TKi2 was!The gas mileage is bad too!OS speed with 2090 pipe max 8:30min.Same engine setup tuned by same guy on a different brand buggy gets 10:00min....But than few friends telling me to not chew myself up because Kyosho really moved to the wrong direction with the TKI4!Its totally different than a TKI3 what everyone loved!My response was than how come the Nationals won by this buggy than?They say bc the guy actually ran the TKI3 not the TKI4!
They also said (this is Ppl who actually good local racers and tried the TKI4) if I keep the TKI4 I gonna always wrenching and chasing setups all the time!Which I am not really happy about!
Question:-what’s the deal with the fuel mileage?Is it true to get worse with this buggy?
-was TKI3 really a better buggy?
-did the Nationals really won with TKI3?
Don’t bite my head off!
Looking for constructive answer!I am not here to bash Kyosho!Just want to clear the water!
Disclaimer - I'm going to be blunt, nothing against you sir.

The TKI3 wasn't better than the TKI4, the TKI4 was a step in the good direction only thing I don't like are the stock pistons being the same front and rear, they shouldn't be because of how the shocks are mounted. Setup skills are scarce amongst pros, not that I'm a setup god but i know a thing or two. That being said, I've spent 30 minutes every day of this week at the track perfecting my setup. And I did perfect it and learned some things.
First, the stock setup is aimed at giving lots of corner entry steering, too much actually and the front loses grip too fast. To tune this use the HT-LR V5 setup I'm going to put on the wiki above this page. Really the biggest difference between the 3 and the 4 is that you can't run 11 degrees of kick up on the 4 stock, period. Second, if runtime is an issue the problem is from your driving or building skills, sorry to say this but here's a tip, if you want to increase runtime use the throttle sparingly. Hold off throttle as much as you can, brake deep into the corners (not before) and power once you finished the corner, not sooner. Will take time to master this technique called trail braking but 100% worth it.

Originally Posted by rcmoe
You also might want to use the TKI3 steering knuckles. And if you want even a smoother steering feel, try the 16 degree aluminum c-hubs. Or if you don’t want to spend the coin on those, try the 17.5 degree plastic. There’s not a major difference in driving feel between the TKI3 and 4 other then a couple option parts that changes the feel.
Sir allow me to disagree with you regarding the need to buy TKI3 knuckles. The 17.5* caster blocks are inexpensive and good to have on hand, other than that nothing is really needed maybe 8 hole pistons but definitely not the TKI3 knuckles IMO.

Originally Posted by am
TKI3 knuckles gives you more steering than the TKI4 knuckles because of the different ackerman. The easy car to drive is the TKI4 With TKI3 B-plate
I have both cars and the steering angle isn't different without using tools to measure, only the bump steer because of the kick up change. BTW the bump steer curve is more consistent on the TKI4. I think that's the reason most feel the 3 has better steering when it really doesn't, it's just the the 4 doesn't shine as good as it can.

Originally Posted by gabor szilagyi
Which pills you using on the TKI3 b plate?Also what pills you using on the other plates?
Thx!
You already have the pills why not try more kick up on your car? Dot up and in on the A plate

Originally Posted by STLNLST
I just won a race where I got 11min on my final pit running a Triton L3. I never ran a TKI3 but I don't feel the TKI4 is behind by any means. One thing I made sure not to do just yet was go to the TKI3 front pieces until I was totally comfortable with all stock TKI4 parts. Chasing that 10min fuel window will eat at you. I get 10+ minutes all the time while practicing but could get the same mileage in the main. Maybe I don't push it as hard in practice as I do in the main or if I crash I gas it while on my lid so that the marshal see's me. It can be a number of things that add to the reason of less mileage. I love this car compared to all that I came into Nitro just a little over a year ago. TLR 3.0, MBX7R, D815, TKI4.....AKA HAPPINESS
So are you using the stock TKI4 parts yet?

----//-----

About the testing I've made during this week, I wanted to see why the TKI3 parts were used. Using my TKI3 as the test mule:
- A spec setup, easy to drive but slow. Why? The front end is numb but the grip balance is good, while having lower grip than the setup I ended using today.
- less kick up. Very good change, the front end had more grip on braking and acceleration transients.
- longer front upper arm so it has the same length as the rear, major change! Everything went bananas, almost no steering into the corner and too much exit.
- orange rear springs, consistent but not better overall.
- HRC D plate bushing, small change.
- 2.5mm front roll bar not good, too stiff.
- 2.3mm rear roll bar with 2.5mm front roll bar, not good.
- 2.3/2.3, meh. (want to try 2.5/2.5).
- 2.3mm front roll bar with 2.5mm rear roll bar (stock), a bit better.
- #2 hole on the rear shock tower, everything better. Tears of joy, champagne for everyone and fireworks. Front grip, rear grip and corner speed was better.
Attached Thumbnails Kyosho Inferno MP9 TKI4 1/8 Buggy Kit-lr-ht-v5.jpg  

Last edited by 30Tooth; 12-20-2017 at 04:27 PM.
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Old 12-15-2017, 05:33 PM
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Default Very detailed info

Thanks a lot!Very detailed information!
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Old 12-16-2017, 02:13 AM
  #2188  
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Not going to agrue With you, but there is a differnece in ackerman even if the steering trow is the same.. you will see that there is a differnece in how much the Outer Wheel turns compoared to the inner Wheel.


Originally Posted by 30Tooth
Disclaimer - I'm going to be blunt, nothing against you sir.

The TKI3 wasn't better than the TKI4, the TKI4 was a step in the good direction only thing I don't like are the stock pistons being the same front and rear, they shouldn't be because of how the shocks are mounted. Setup skills are scarce amongst pros, not that I'm a setup god but i know a thing or two. That being said, I've spent 30 minutes every day of this week at the track perfecting my setup. And I did perfect it and learned some things.
First, the stock setup is aimed at giving lots of corner entry steering, too much actually and the front loses grip too fast. To tune this use the HT-LR V5 setup I'm going to put on the wiki above this page. Really the biggest difference between the 3 and the 4 is that you can't run 11 degrees of kick up on the 4 stock, period. Second, if runtime is an issue the problem is from your driving or building skills, sorry to say this but here's a tip, if you want to increase runtime use the throttle sparingly. Hold off throttle as much as you can, brake deep into the corners (not before) and power once you finished the corner, not sooner. Will take time to master this technique called trail braking but 100% worth it.



Sir allow me to disagree with you regarding the need to buy TKI3 knuckles. The 17.5* caster blocks are inexpensive and good to have on hand, other than that nothing is really needed maybe 8 hole pistons but definitely not the TKI3 knuckles IMO.



I have both cars and the steering angle isn't different without using tools to measure, only the bump steer because of the kick up change. BTW the bump steer curve is more consistent on the TKI4. I think that's the reason most feel the 3 has better steering when it really doesn't, it's just the the 4 doesn't shine as good as it can.



You already have the pills why not try more kick up on your car? Dot up and in on the A plate



So are you using the stock TKI4 parts yet?

----//-----

About the testing I've made during this week, I wanted to see why the TKI3 parts were used. Using my TKI3 as the test mule:
- A spec setup, easy to drive but slow. Why? The front end is numb but the grip balance is good, while having lower grip than the setup I ended using today.
- less kick up. Very good change, the front end had more grip on braking and acceleration transients.
- longer front upper arm so it has the same length as the rear, major change! Everything went bananas, almost no steering into the corner and too much exit.
- orange rear springs, consistent but not better overall.
- HRC D plate bushing, small change.
- 2.5mm front roll bar not good, too stiff.
- 2.3mm rear roll bar with 2.5mm front roll bar, not good.
- 2.3/2.3, meh. (want to try 2.5/2.5).
- 2.3mm front roll bar with 2.5mm rear roll bar (stock), a bit better.
- #2 hole on the rear shock tower, everything better. Tears of joy, champagne for everyone and fireworks. Front grip, rear grip and corner speed was better.
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Old 12-16-2017, 02:17 AM
  #2189  
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Originally Posted by rcmoe
Just because the 3 knuckles gives more steering doesn’t mean it makes it harder to drive. The 3 knuckles combined with the 16 degree hubs feels the best for ME. He can easily try both and see what’s best for him. My smoother feel reply was more towards the 16 degrees opposed to the 13 degree
I agree, but you also compare Apples to Oranges when you bring in the 16 degree casterblock. Because of ackerman ( see my previous post ) there will always be more steering With the TKI3 knuckles.

I still belive that a very easy car to drive is the TKI4 With the B-plate from TKI3 if the cars have the same setup.

On anither note, why not buy the 17.5 plastic castorblock and test. It is cheap compared to 16 degree alu castorblock.
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Old 12-16-2017, 02:27 AM
  #2190  
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Originally Posted by gabor szilagyi
Which pills you using on the TKI3 b plate?Also what pills you using on the other plates?
Thx!
I use the stovk setting on the lower end in front. Just switch to the TKI3 b-plate. At the rear i use Stock settings With 1 or 2 degrees of antisquat. it Depends of the track and traction. Front upper i use Stock or raise the upper arm one hole. Also depend on the track conditions.

I did use the front to adjust the steering or how the car comes araound the corners, but this summer i have been using different rear toe settings and antisquat more and more to achive the same.

Here is the order of how i adjust my cars when i hit a New track:

Antirollbars.
Front and rear camberlinks, upper arms.
Last, i adjust toe or antisquat.

After this, i start messing B-plates, castorblocks, knuckles and diffs.
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