R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Nitro Off-Road

    Hide Wikipost
Old 11-23-2017, 02:45 PM   -   Wikipost
R/C Tech Forums Thread Wiki: Kyosho Inferno MP9 TKI4 1/8 Buggy Kit
Please read: This is a community-maintained wiki post containing the most important information from this thread. You may edit the Wiki once you have been a member for 90 days and have made 90 posts.
 
Last edit by: 30Tooth
Picked up a TKI3 and want to upgrade to TKI4 ? Here are all the updated parts:

Shocks

IF347-155 1.5X5 Pistons
IF471-01 Front Shock Body
IF470-01 Rear Shock Body
IF470-03BK Shock Adjust Dial
IFW154 Boots
IF346-05C Shock End Set

Wing

IF491BK Wing
IFW460B Wing Mount/Stay

Rear End

IFH006W Wheel
IF490 HUB
IF490-01 Hub Insert
IF492 Shock Pin
IF423HB Rear Arm
IF287 Hard Upper Rod Rear

Front End

IF489 Steering Rod Set
IF488 Knuckles
IF487H Front Arm
IFW458 Hard Lower Pin
IFW425 93MM CVD
IF286 Hard Upper Rod
IF486 Lower Susp Holder
IFW459 Servo Saver (Hard)
IF446B Ackerman Arm
IF426-64.5 Susp Shaft


Other

IF469B Filter
97035LW-13 Clutch Bell
IF453B Body Mount
IFW107GM Hexes
W300910 Washer
IF443B Center Diff Plate
IF444C Tank
IF479B Radio Box
96772 13x16x0.15mm Shim
IF481B Fuel Tank Stay
IFW336GM Wheelnut
IFB008 TKI4 Body
IFD403W TKI4 Decal

---------------------------

Another option if you want TKI4 Durability but TKI3 geometry of the front arm is :

IF493 Front Arm (Updated MP9 front arms replaces IF427B as a direct fit. Left and right.)

They use the older TKI3 captured outer hinge pin and screw. But if you just reem out the the outer hole you can use TKI hinge-pin/nut (IFW458)
---------------------------

Optional Updates / New Parts:

IFW469 IFW469 Aeration Cap Set(Threaded Big Shock/MP9)

IFW473 New Brake Pads (Sept 2017)

Optional Alu front hubs:
- IFW412 - 13 deg (like stock plastic ones)
- IFW436 - 16 deg
- IFW461 - 19deg

M2C 1mm engine spacer: M2C9610

Body Options

New Bitty Force Body

Tebo's Build Videos

Video #1

Video #2

Video #3

Video #4

Video #5

Video #6

Original Kyosho MP9 TKI Thread
_____________________

Baseline setups from Joonas.




_____________________

Shock build with vented cap and compensator.

You have to use the HC diaphragms (if346-09,stock TKI3 and if not mistaken TKI4 too, yes the thin ones no one likes), aeration caps without the bleeder screw or mod the stock caps by drilling a 1.5 or 2mm hole on the top facing up or at an angle (doesn't matter the size or angle, it just for bleeding pressure behind the diaphragm and allow the foam compensator to breathe) and a 10mm width x 3.5mm height dome shaped foam compensator made from old open cell inserts or dishwasher sponge. The foam compensator has to be soft enough not to add rebound but allow the diaphragm to regain it's shape.

Setup Sheet and Tuning Original Post
The setup sheet is getting crowded with all options but don't worry once you get acquainted with the parts will make sense.
Run the car as is, more than probably you won't need anything else. Using my setup as an example:


Diff gear has two options, normal and LSD. LSD stands for limited slip differential and is like using thick oils because you can't tune coast from locked.

Shock setup is a bit more confusing, you have two shock body sizes (S and M and truggy sized rear shocks that only the first version had so forget this one), three types of pistons (flat holes and surfaces, flat holes tapered surface and tapered holes with tapered surface): tapered have most pack, then black(simple piston) and then white because length of the holes. Then you have different length springs to account for different shock sizes, for a standard wheelbase/no weights car a good combo is Light Blue front and Orange rear, if you extend the wheelbase then I expect the included Light Blue rear springs be money instead of Orange.

Ride height is self explanatory, start always with lower arms parallel because good suspension geometry will be far easier to achieve. Rebound is used as total shock length no idea why they call it rebound, either use total shock length or maximum exposed shock shaft length. Camber self explanatory, run more camber in the front than the rear to make the car oversteer and more rear than front to make it understeer(grossly oversimplified).

Toe same deal as camber(again grossly oversimplified) but this you have to run the least amount you can. I use around 2º-2.5º on my cars, never more as I can find traction by other means with way less impact on performance.

Wheelbase is a powerful setting, changes a lot of stuff. Let's just say that it can make the car behave neutral or not in that small range. Try for yourself. I like to use the longest setting and tune from there.

Shock position self explanatory, something most don't change and I don't play around with it. I do have a method but involves much work (with the car bottomed out, see which position places the shock 90º to the lower arm and then chose spring from a couple equations and bam done, I can do it easily so anyone interested just ask.

Rear upper arm position is again an important setting, you change both camber gain and roll centre. The rear roll centre should be higher than the front, that's why I use the middle hole inner row as a starting setup.

Suspension arm, self explanatory: there are two different length arms and each has a hard and a normal flex plastic.

Front suspension bushing is for upper arm alignment, also same deal as rear upper arm position changes both camber gain and roll centre.

Suspension holder is for kick up (pro dive is the correct naming). I believe tki4 9º of kick up to be better than 9º of kick up using the tki3 parts because you can run the car lower (26mm front ride height) and use the +2mm front shock tower if there's too much camber gain or it's stiff in roll. So use +2mm lowered roll centre to keep most stuff unchanged or use the bushings with the dot up to lower the roll centre a bit more, doesn't hurt anything.

Front hub carrier, self explanatory. I am trying to use the out hole on top of the carrier as it is better during braking and accelerating. Together with the higher front roll centre on the tki4 should provide enough camber gain during cornering if not then more caster will do.

Rear roll centre and anti squat(wrongly called skid angle). Again same thinking as the front, lower the car and keep roll centre in the same height as before(that will need a change in upper arm position which my setup does). Anti squat is changed only if the pitching motion causes too much camber to be gained by the rear tires on power, nothing more.

Front knuckle, apparently there's a difference in the Ackerman arm. Can't say anything about them as I don't know enough about both.

Rear hub carrier,there is one made of plastic (which doesn't have offset apparently so it's suited to long arm setting) and three aluminium versions. One similar to the plastic one, other with offset and a new one with offset and adjustable hub height.

Rear tread can be used as arm length and outboard toe(never seen it being used but the possibility is there). Longer is better most of the time (only on really low traction).

Chassis brace, wheel hub, sway bars and weight are self explanatory. No need to use weights nor other hubs. A couple of roll bars would be a nice addition. About the aluminium braces I am torn, I guess the car doesn't need flex with this setup but won't recommend the stiffer braces but the lower engine mount is very nice to deal with flex around the clutch.

Wing and wing stay are like the d81x had regarding height and position. The wing should be as low and have free airflow as possible.

Print Wikipost

Like Tree131Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10-12-2017, 07:43 PM   #2056
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Beneath a rock down by the river. Don't have money for van
Posts: 3,178
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default



These props? It's 2:40AM, sorry getting a bit crazy.

Proving I'm not resting in my laurels I hereby declare that the best shock ever has been built by yours truly right now, combining the advantages of the bladder and the aeration set with a cost disadvantage (aeration caps or modded stock ones+secret ingredient). Tomorrow morning will make the tutorial and add to the wiki.
__________________
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) https://www.facebook.com/becomeasetupguru/
30Tooth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2017, 10:07 PM   #2057
Tech Fanatic
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Townsville
Posts: 856
Trader Rating: 5 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 30Tooth View Post


These props? It's 2:40AM, sorry getting a bit crazy.

Proving I'm not resting in my laurels I hereby declare that the best shock ever has been built by yours truly right now, combining the advantages of the bladder and the aeration set with a cost disadvantage (aeration caps or modded stock ones+secret ingredient). Tomorrow morning will make the tutorial and add to the wiki.
Thats a bold claim sir, best ever?

Be interesting to see what you come up with
Gavel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2017, 03:45 PM   #2058
Tech Rookie
 
supasmo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Mansfield, Tx
Posts: 3
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre Gon View Post
Hi, I'm André from Brazil.
I have the same problem (cvd) with kyosho tki4, did you solve it?
Hey Andre, I just grabbed 4 universals (not CVDs) that are the 93mm. They fit the tki4 arms. Hope that helps.
supasmo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2017, 06:20 PM   #2059
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Beneath a rock down by the river. Don't have money for van
Posts: 3,178
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gavel View Post
Thats a bold claim sir, best ever?

Be interesting to see what you come up with
Just exaggerating a ton my good man.

It's a very simple way of building the shock, like 1:1 car shocks. You have to use the HC diaphragms (if346-09,stock TKI3 and if not mistaken TKI4 too, yes the thin ones no one likes), aeration caps without the bleeder screw or mod the stock caps by drilling a 1.5 or 2mm hole on the top facing up or at an angle (doesn't matter the size or angle, it just for bleeding pressure behind the diaphragm and allow the foam compensator to breathe) and a 10mm width x 3.5mm height foam compensator made from old open cell inserts or dishwasher sponge. The foam compensator has to be soft enough not to add rebound but allow the diaphragm to regain it's shape.

The hard part was coming up with the foam compensators dimensions, that's critical!
__________________
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) https://www.facebook.com/becomeasetupguru/
30Tooth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2017, 06:38 PM   #2060
Tech Master
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 1,209
Trader Rating: 16 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 30Tooth View Post
Just exaggerating a ton my good man.

It's a very simple way of building the shock, like 1:1 car shocks. You have to use the HC diaphragms (if346-09,stock TKI3 and if not mistaken TKI4 too, yes the thin ones no one likes), aeration caps without the bleeder screw or mod the stock caps by drilling a 1.5 or 2mm hole on the top facing up or at an angle (doesn't matter the size or angle, it just for bleeding pressure behind the diaphragm and allow the foam compensator to breathe) and a 10mm width x 3.5mm height foam compensator made from old open cell inserts or dishwasher sponge. The foam compensator has to be soft enough not to add rebound but allow the diaphragm to regain it's shape.

The hard part was coming up with the foam compensators dimensions, that's critical!
You know that the foams you speak of are a genuine Kyosho part which one can order from their local hobby shop? If you want the part number, I can dig it out. Just gimme a few hours as got weekend housework to do unfortunately.

Also, not sure about the 1:1 car you speak of about which your method is a very simple way of emulating their shocks but could it be something like a Ford Model T? Seriously though, I've never come across any full size car which has such a design but I always try and keep an open mind, so please let me know of the car about which you speak whose shocks resemble what you describe.
__________________
MP9 TKI3/4 | Ninja B02 | OS 2090 | 4PKS-R | KO RSx2 Power HC
aaron125 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2017, 07:03 PM   #2061
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Beneath a rock down by the river. Don't have money for van
Posts: 3,178
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Depends, I think those foams might be too big,as a mater of fact I'm 90% sure they are as they were for the older slim bore shock which used deeper diaphragms.

Mono tube shocks have a gas chamber behind a floating piston. I'm emulating all that with parts at hand instead of having to redesign the entire shock
__________________
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) https://www.facebook.com/becomeasetupguru/

Last edited by 30Tooth; 10-14-2017 at 04:33 AM. Reason: typo
30Tooth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2017, 02:21 PM   #2062
Tech Prophet
 
houston's Avatar
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: portland OR
Posts: 15,116
Trader Rating: 91 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtwinste View Post
Like which one ? This is the only one on Amain that will fit. And the difference won’t be 2 ounces lol. Maybe 15 grams.
I use venom 1200mah lipo pack ...works awesome
big lou likes this.
houston is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2017, 10:43 PM   #2063
Tech Champion
 
STLNLST's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 8,996
Trader Rating: 21 (100%+)
Default

This car is awesome. We had them rocking this weekend at Octoberfest at CVR2.0 I can't wait to run this buggy again. Ran the kit clutch instead of the BUKU and was very impressed. Think I'll keep in on for a while.
__________________
REMEMBER THE GOOD OLE DAYS..........THEY'RE NEVER COMING BACK SO WE'RE STUCK WITH THE MESS IN FRONT OF US!!!!
STLNLST is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2017, 04:03 AM   #2064
Tech Master
 
Winner's Circle's Avatar
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Atlanta, Georgia USA
Posts: 1,155
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by STLNLST View Post
This car is awesome. We had them rocking this weekend at Octoberfest at CVR2.0 I can't wait to run this buggy again. Ran the kit clutch instead of the BUKU and was very impressed. Think I'll keep in on for a while.
The kit clutch works great BUT the shoes mushroom with use and then begin to drag on the face of the flywheel which makes the engagement/disengagement weird.

I tried doubling the number of small washers that go on each post and that delayed the problem some but it was still there.

I switched over to the Reds clutch and it is essentially maintenance free.

Lee
Motorman007 likes this.
__________________
Lee Muse
[email protected]
Kyosho ST-RR, Kyosho MP9, Murnan Modified Engines
Winner's Circle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2017, 04:38 AM   #2065
Tech Apprentice
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 95
Default

Hi.

Anyone tried running the CVd's (IFW433) ?
ColourGhost is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2017, 05:14 AM   #2066
Tech Elite
 
underway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: SoCal
Posts: 2,306
Trader Rating: 48 (100%+)
Default

Anyone ever had an issue getting an Os engine to mesh properly? Seems like my 2102 won’t slide over far enough.
underway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2017, 05:51 AM   #2067
Tech Champion
 
STLNLST's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 8,996
Trader Rating: 21 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Winner's Circle View Post
The kit clutch works great BUT the shoes mushroom with use and then begin to drag on the face of the flywheel which makes the engagement/disengagement weird.

I tried doubling the number of small washers that go on each post and that delayed the problem some but it was still there.

I switched over to the Reds clutch and it is essentially maintenance free.

Lee
I'll keep my eye open for that. Somehow the BUKU went flat on me and it all checks out. I may look it over and try it on a practice day again. For now it will stay in the box.
__________________
REMEMBER THE GOOD OLE DAYS..........THEY'RE NEVER COMING BACK SO WE'RE STUCK WITH THE MESS IN FRONT OF US!!!!
STLNLST is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2017, 06:07 AM   #2068
Tech Fanatic
 
mourinho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 873
Trader Rating: 42 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by underway View Post
Anyone ever had an issue getting an Os engine to mesh properly? Seems like my 2102 won’t slide over far enough.
did you clearance the (inboard) lower engine mount plate as per the manual?
mourinho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2017, 07:02 AM   #2069
Tech Champion
 
tobamiester's Avatar
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Tea drinking Limmey in NJ
Posts: 9,835
Trader Rating: 283 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to tobamiester Send a message via Yahoo to tobamiester
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mourinho View Post
did you clearance the (inboard) lower engine mount plate as per the manual?
Also dremel some plastic material off the rare diff mount on the inside, right next to where the clutchbell is..This will give you more room/adjustability.
tobamiester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2017, 08:18 AM   #2070
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Beneath a rock down by the river. Don't have money for van
Posts: 3,178
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

More tech time.

Seeing that the TKI4 has decreased pro-dive angle in the front (the hated B plate), it makes sense that the ratio between wheel forces travelling through springs and through the suspension linkages has to be redone. The car is stiffer because the arms and linkages provide more stiffness to the suspension (jacking forces opposing movement), therefore we choose to change roll stiffness or pitch stiffness, being that there the change was bigger in pro dive than roll centre I say the front springs are now too stiff. Would the case being in roll stiffness then you'd know the roll bar would be stiffer than needed.

That goes along of my current study, the aluminium rear brace needs way less anti squat for it increases pitch sensitivity.
__________________
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) https://www.facebook.com/becomeasetupguru/
30Tooth is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 07:44 PM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net