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Kyosho Inferno MP9 TKI4 1/8 Buggy Kit

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Kyosho Inferno MP9 TKI4 1/8 Buggy Kit

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Old 11-05-2018, 09:06 AM   -   Wikipost
R/C Tech ForumsThread Wiki: Kyosho Inferno MP9 TKI4 1/8 Buggy Kit
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Last edit by: 30Tooth
Picked up a TKI3 and want to upgrade to TKI4 ? Here are all the updated parts:

Shocks

IF347-155 1.5X5 Pistons
IF471-01 Front Shock Body
IF470-01 Rear Shock Body
IF470-03BK Shock Adjust Dial
IFW154 Boots
IF346-05C Shock End Set

Wing

IF491BK Wing
IFW460B Wing Mount/Stay

Rear End

IFH006W Wheel
IF490 HUB
IF490-01 Hub Insert
IF492 Shock Pin
IF423HB Rear Arm
IF287 Hard Upper Rod Rear

Front End

IF489 Steering Rod Set
IF488 Knuckles
IF487H Front Arm
IFW458 Hard Lower Pin
IFW425 93MM CVD
IF286 Hard Upper Rod
IF486 Lower Susp Holder
IFW459 Servo Saver (Hard)
IF446B Ackerman Arm
IF426-64.5 Susp Shaft


Other

IF469B Filter
97035LW-13 Clutch Bell
IF453B Body Mount
IFW107GM Hexes
W300910 Washer
IF443B Center Diff Plate
IF444C Tank
IF479B Radio Box
96772 13x16x0.15mm Shim
IF481B Fuel Tank Stay
IFW336GM Wheelnut
IFB008 TKI4 Body
IFD403W TKI4 Decal

---------------------------

Another option if you want TKI4 Durability but TKI3 geometry of the front arm is :

IF493 Front Arm (Updated MP9 front arms replaces IF427B as a direct fit. Left and right.)

They use the older TKI3 captured outer hinge pin and screw. But if you just reem out the the outer hole you can use TKI hinge-pin/nut (IFW458)
---------------------------

Optional Updates / New Parts:

IFW469 IFW469 Aeration Cap Set(Threaded Big Shock/MP9)

IFW473 New Brake Pads (Sept 2017)

Optional Alu front hubs:
- IFW412 - 13 deg (like stock plastic ones)
- IFW436 - 16 deg
- IFW474 - 17.5 deg
- IFW461 - 19deg

M2C 1mm engine spacer: M2C9610

Body Options
New Bitty Force Body

Tebo's Build Videos

Video #1

Video #2

Video #3

Video #4

Video #5

Video #6

Original Kyosho MP9 TKI Thread
_____________________

Baseline setups from Joonas.




_____________________

Shock build with vented cap and compensator.

You have to use the HC diaphragms (if346-09,stock TKI3 and if not mistaken TKI4 too, yes the thin ones no one likes), aeration caps without the bleeder screw or mod the stock caps by drilling a 1.5 or 2mm hole on the top facing up or at an angle (doesn't matter the size or angle, it just for bleeding pressure behind the diaphragm and allow the foam compensator to breathe) and a 10mm width x 3.5mm height dome shaped foam compensator made from old open cell inserts or dishwasher sponge. The foam compensator has to be soft enough not to add rebound but allow the diaphragm to regain it's shape.

Setup Sheet and Tuning

The setup sheet is getting crowded with all options but don't worry once you get acquainted with the parts will make sense.
Run the car as is, more than probably you won't need anything else. Using my setup as an example:

Diff gear has two options, normal and LSD. LSD stands for limited slip differential and is like using thick oils because you can't tune coast from locked.

Shock setup is a bit more confusing, you have two shock body sizes (S and M and truggy sized rear shocks that only the first version had so forget this one), three types of pistons (flat holes and surfaces, flat holes tapered surface and tapered holes with tapered surface): tapered have most pack, then black(simple piston) and then white because length of the holes. Then you have different length springs to account for different shock sizes, for a standard wheelbase/no weights car a good combo is Light Blue front and Orange rear, if you extend the wheelbase then I expect the included Light Blue rear springs be money instead of Orange.

Ride height is self explanatory, start always with lower arms parallel because good suspension geometry will be far easier to achieve. Rebound is used as total shock length no idea why they call it rebound, either use total shock length or maximum exposed shock shaft length. Camber self explanatory, run more camber in the front than the rear to make the car oversteer and more rear than front to make it understeer(grossly oversimplified).

Toe same deal as camber(again grossly oversimplified) but this you have to run the least amount you can. I use around 2-2.5 on my cars, never more as I can find traction by other means with way less impact on performance.

Wheelbase is a powerful setting, changes a lot of stuff. Let's just say that it can make the car behave neutral or not in that small range. Try for yourself. I like to use the longest setting and tune from there.

Shock position self explanatory, something most don't change and I don't play around with it. I do have a method but involves much work (with the car bottomed out, see which position places the shock 90 to the lower arm and then chose spring from a couple equations and bam done, I can do it easily so anyone interested just ask.

Rear upper arm position is again an important setting, you change both camber gain and roll centre. The rear roll centre should be higher than the front, that's why I use the middle hole inner row as a starting setup.

Suspension arm, self explanatory: there are two different length arms and each has a hard and a normal flex plastic.

Front suspension bushing is for upper arm alignment, also same deal as rear upper arm position changes both camber gain and roll centre.

Suspension holder is for kick up (pro dive is the correct naming). I believe tki4 9 of kick up to be better than 9 of kick up using the tki3 parts because you can run the car lower (26mm front ride height) and use the +2mm front shock tower if there's too much camber gain or it's stiff in roll. So use +2mm lowered roll centre to keep most stuff unchanged or use the bushings with the dot up to lower the roll centre a bit more, doesn't hurt anything.

Front hub carrier, self explanatory. I am trying to use the out hole on top of the carrier as it is better during braking and accelerating. Together with the higher front roll centre on the tki4 should provide enough camber gain during cornering if not then more caster will do.

Rear roll centre and anti squat(wrongly called skid angle). Again same thinking as the front, lower the car and keep roll centre in the same height as before(that will need a change in upper arm position which my setup does). Anti squat is changed only if the pitching motion causes too much camber to be gained by the rear tires on power, nothing more.

Front knuckle, apparently there's a difference in the Ackerman arm. Can't say anything about them as I don't know enough about both.

Rear hub carrier,there is one made of plastic (which doesn't have offset apparently so it's suited to long arm setting) and three aluminium versions. One similar to the plastic one, other with offset and a new one with offset and adjustable hub height.

Rear tread can be used as arm length and outboard toe(never seen it being used but the possibility is there). Longer is better most of the time (only on really low traction).

Chassis brace, wheel hub, sway bars and weight are self explanatory. No need to use weights nor other hubs. A couple of roll bars would be a nice addition. About the aluminium braces I am torn, I guess the car doesn't need flex with this setup but won't recommend the stiffer braces but the lower engine mount is very nice to deal with flex around the clutch.

Wing and wing stay are like the d81x had regarding height and position. The wing should be as low and have free airflow as possible.

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Old 09-14-2017, 12:54 PM
  #1981  
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You are speaking of bikes,they lean on turns so much that any bump encountered during lean only has tire wall stiffness to comply, no suspension to soak up that surface irregularity as the plane of suspension movement does not match required wheel travel so manufacturers have to rely on frame flex to absorb irregularities during lean.
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Last edited by 30Tooth; 09-14-2017 at 01:46 PM.
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Old 09-15-2017, 03:16 AM
  #1982  
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Hello 8ight-racer,

Very nice that You run the FEA on that The Car chassis.

There are 2 points that I would like to comment about this,

1. Actually I agree that the Maximum Stress Point of the Chassis is around the center line of the chassis usually just at the opening between the spur and the Flywheel opening. On Your model there is no Spur Gear Opening so that this might not be too pronounced. But if You change the material of the Rear Torque Rod, I'm pretty sure that the stress will be a bit spread to the rear around the rear torque rod base. Or even try to run the analysis again without a rear brace.

2. Your simulation is like when the car case a jump or landed just on the peak of a jump, while in my opinion most of the time the chassis will bend in a case of lawn darting or maybe flat landing a big jump continuously. In this case the chassis will experience a moment like a paper folded in the middle, and in this situation Aluminum Braces will make the center of the chassis takes even more pressure from the front or the rear section of the car instantly. While plastic braces will let either the front or the rear side of the chassis absorb some of the impact pressure and not directly send toward the center of the chassis.

Just my opinion.

Cheers..

Originally Posted by 8ight-racer
I think it's the opposite. The max stress point is already in the center of the chassis (when the car cases a landing), so adding aluminum braces just decreases the magnitude of the max stress (and deflection) at the center of the chassis, resulting in less likelihood of bending because it takes more force before it reaches its max stress before bending. At least that's the simple explanation.

Here's a FEA screenshot I did with a stock chassis on another car, and later confirmed the above by adding an aluminum front brace.

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Old 09-15-2017, 05:05 AM
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Hello Stanley,
That model is the THE Car Black Edition and I agree with you, for all intents a head on collision would provide the info I'm looking for.
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Old 09-15-2017, 10:11 PM
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Hey guys, need some help please. I'm running the +2mm MS front end with tki3 steering knuckles ( MP9E - Black ones), B mount, arms and alu 13* caster blocks. When I have the shocks at full droop of 105 mm the steering binds unless I push up on the front arms up and/ or lengthen the upper arms but it will at about 0* or probably + camber. Also when I apply negative camber, the droop is limited. Not sure what im doing wrong. Thanks so much!

Last edited by JLRC; 09-16-2017 at 07:06 AM.
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Old 09-16-2017, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by JLRC
Hey guys, need some help please. I'm running the +2mm MS front end with tki3 steering knuckles ( MP9E - Black ones), B mount, arms and alu 13* caster blocks. When I have the shocks at full droop of 105 mm the steering binds unless I push up on the front arms up and/ or lengthen the upper arms but it will at about 0* or probably + camber. Also when I apply negative camber, the droop is limited. Not sure what im doing wrong. Thanks so much!
"These aren't the droids you are looking for."

Last edited by 30Tooth; 09-17-2017 at 02:23 AM.
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Old 09-16-2017, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by JLRC
Hey guys, need some help please. I'm running the +2mm MS front end with tki3 steering knuckles ( MP9E - Black ones), B mount, arms and alu 13* caster blocks. When I have the shocks at full droop of 105 mm the steering binds unless I push up on the front arms up and/ or lengthen the upper arms but it will at about 0* or probably + camber. Also when I apply negative camber, the droop is limited. Not sure what im doing wrong. Thanks so much!
are you using the tki3 arms? if so are your pills set to wide?
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Old 09-16-2017, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by 30Tooth
Nothing wrong AFAIK, you are way off the droop the front end is capable of running. Around 101mm is more than sufficient droop all round.

Thanks 30t! I'll re-measure with blocks under the chassis via wheels hub heights, was measuring from shock eyelet to eyelet with calipers. 101 for the longer front shocks as well? I was reading some older post that recommend 104-105mm. Really appreciate the help 😁.
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Old 09-16-2017, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by mourinho
are you using the tki3 arms? if so are your pills set to wide?
Yep the new revised tki3 arms. Pills set to dot in, do they need to be out? I'll try to post a pic, cant resize on my phone. I was trying Tebo's worlds setup but he doesn't run the MS shocks from what I can see. Thank you 😀
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Old 09-16-2017, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by JLRC
Yep the new revised tki3 arms. Pills set to dot in, do they need to be out? I'll try to post a pic, cant resize on my phone. I was trying Tebo's worlds setup but he doesn't run the MS shocks from what I can see. Thank you ��
yes if you run the tki3 arms then you should run pills out, pills in with the tki3 arms and 93mm universals would cause the universals to bottom out in the outdrive and your track width would be super narrow.

fyi, i have ran 105mm droop with the MS front end without issue so something is definitely not right.
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Old 09-16-2017, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by mourinho
yes if you run the tki3 arms then you should run pills out, pills in with the tki3 arms and 93mm universals would cause the universals to bottom out in the outdrive and your track width would be super narrow.

fyi, i have ran 105mm droop with the MS front end without issue so something is definitely not right.
Right on man! Should I run the rear arm outter hinge hub pills out as well?
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Old 09-16-2017, 08:42 PM
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Rear arm pills in unless you are using ifw410 zero offset hubs.
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Old 09-16-2017, 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted by mourinho
Rear arm pills in unless you are using ifw410 zero offset hubs.

Thank you again man. Switched the front pills and now back to no binding and able to run 105 mm of droop. 😁. Appreciate the help guys.
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Old 09-16-2017, 11:34 PM
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Originally Posted by JLRC
Thank you again man. Switched the front pills and now back to no binding and able to run 105 mm of droop. 😁. Appreciate the help guys.
Are you running the October fest at CVR? We have a pretty killer setup for out there.
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Old 09-17-2017, 02:07 AM
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Originally Posted by STLNLST
Are you running the October fest at CVR? We have a pretty killer setup for out there.

Yes sir. Might have to try it. But my car is setup a lot diffent than yours and 1 evo' s bro, you guys have more finesse . You know my trigger finger lmao...
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Old 09-17-2017, 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by JLRC
Yes sir. Might have to try it. But my car is setup a lot diffent than yours and 1 evo' s bro, you guys have more finesse . You know my trigger finger lmao...
Trigger finger isn't necessarily in the buggy setup.....I have found that running a 14T clutch bell (if you were using a 13T) takes away unwanted wheel spin from heavy throttle fingers.
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