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Kyosho Inferno MP9 TKI4 1/8 Buggy Kit

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Kyosho Inferno MP9 TKI4 1/8 Buggy Kit

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Old 11-05-2018, 09:06 AM   -   Wikipost
R/C Tech ForumsThread Wiki: Kyosho Inferno MP9 TKI4 1/8 Buggy Kit
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Last edit by: 30Tooth
Picked up a TKI3 and want to upgrade to TKI4 ? Here are all the updated parts:

Shocks

IF347-155 1.5X5 Pistons
IF471-01 Front Shock Body
IF470-01 Rear Shock Body
IF470-03BK Shock Adjust Dial
IFW154 Boots
IF346-05C Shock End Set

Wing

IF491BK Wing
IFW460B Wing Mount/Stay

Rear End

IFH006W Wheel
IF490 HUB
IF490-01 Hub Insert
IF492 Shock Pin
IF423HB Rear Arm
IF287 Hard Upper Rod Rear

Front End

IF489 Steering Rod Set
IF488 Knuckles
IF487H Front Arm
IFW458 Hard Lower Pin
IFW425 93MM CVD
IF286 Hard Upper Rod
IF486 Lower Susp Holder
IFW459 Servo Saver (Hard)
IF446B Ackerman Arm
IF426-64.5 Susp Shaft


Other

IF469B Filter
97035LW-13 Clutch Bell
IF453B Body Mount
IFW107GM Hexes
W300910 Washer
IF443B Center Diff Plate
IF444C Tank
IF479B Radio Box
96772 13x16x0.15mm Shim
IF481B Fuel Tank Stay
IFW336GM Wheelnut
IFB008 TKI4 Body
IFD403W TKI4 Decal

---------------------------

Another option if you want TKI4 Durability but TKI3 geometry of the front arm is :

IF493 Front Arm (Updated MP9 front arms replaces IF427B as a direct fit. Left and right.)

They use the older TKI3 captured outer hinge pin and screw. But if you just reem out the the outer hole you can use TKI hinge-pin/nut (IFW458)
---------------------------

Optional Updates / New Parts:

IFW469 IFW469 Aeration Cap Set(Threaded Big Shock/MP9)

IFW473 New Brake Pads (Sept 2017)

Optional Alu front hubs:
- IFW412 - 13 deg (like stock plastic ones)
- IFW436 - 16 deg
- IFW474 - 17.5 deg
- IFW461 - 19deg

M2C 1mm engine spacer: M2C9610

Body Options
New Bitty Force Body

Tebo's Build Videos

Video #1

Video #2

Video #3

Video #4

Video #5

Video #6

Original Kyosho MP9 TKI Thread
_____________________

Baseline setups from Joonas.




_____________________

Shock build with vented cap and compensator.

You have to use the HC diaphragms (if346-09,stock TKI3 and if not mistaken TKI4 too, yes the thin ones no one likes), aeration caps without the bleeder screw or mod the stock caps by drilling a 1.5 or 2mm hole on the top facing up or at an angle (doesn't matter the size or angle, it just for bleeding pressure behind the diaphragm and allow the foam compensator to breathe) and a 10mm width x 3.5mm height dome shaped foam compensator made from old open cell inserts or dishwasher sponge. The foam compensator has to be soft enough not to add rebound but allow the diaphragm to regain it's shape.

Setup Sheet and Tuning

The setup sheet is getting crowded with all options but don't worry once you get acquainted with the parts will make sense.
Run the car as is, more than probably you won't need anything else. Using my setup as an example:

Diff gear has two options, normal and LSD. LSD stands for limited slip differential and is like using thick oils because you can't tune coast from locked.

Shock setup is a bit more confusing, you have two shock body sizes (S and M and truggy sized rear shocks that only the first version had so forget this one), three types of pistons (flat holes and surfaces, flat holes tapered surface and tapered holes with tapered surface): tapered have most pack, then black(simple piston) and then white because length of the holes. Then you have different length springs to account for different shock sizes, for a standard wheelbase/no weights car a good combo is Light Blue front and Orange rear, if you extend the wheelbase then I expect the included Light Blue rear springs be money instead of Orange.

Ride height is self explanatory, start always with lower arms parallel because good suspension geometry will be far easier to achieve. Rebound is used as total shock length no idea why they call it rebound, either use total shock length or maximum exposed shock shaft length. Camber self explanatory, run more camber in the front than the rear to make the car oversteer and more rear than front to make it understeer(grossly oversimplified).

Toe same deal as camber(again grossly oversimplified) but this you have to run the least amount you can. I use around 2º-2.5º on my cars, never more as I can find traction by other means with way less impact on performance.

Wheelbase is a powerful setting, changes a lot of stuff. Let's just say that it can make the car behave neutral or not in that small range. Try for yourself. I like to use the longest setting and tune from there.

Shock position self explanatory, something most don't change and I don't play around with it. I do have a method but involves much work (with the car bottomed out, see which position places the shock 90º to the lower arm and then chose spring from a couple equations and bam done, I can do it easily so anyone interested just ask.

Rear upper arm position is again an important setting, you change both camber gain and roll centre. The rear roll centre should be higher than the front, that's why I use the middle hole inner row as a starting setup.

Suspension arm, self explanatory: there are two different length arms and each has a hard and a normal flex plastic.

Front suspension bushing is for upper arm alignment, also same deal as rear upper arm position changes both camber gain and roll centre.

Suspension holder is for kick up (pro dive is the correct naming). I believe tki4 9º of kick up to be better than 9º of kick up using the tki3 parts because you can run the car lower (26mm front ride height) and use the +2mm front shock tower if there's too much camber gain or it's stiff in roll. So use +2mm lowered roll centre to keep most stuff unchanged or use the bushings with the dot up to lower the roll centre a bit more, doesn't hurt anything.

Front hub carrier, self explanatory. I am trying to use the out hole on top of the carrier as it is better during braking and accelerating. Together with the higher front roll centre on the tki4 should provide enough camber gain during cornering if not then more caster will do.

Rear roll centre and anti squat(wrongly called skid angle). Again same thinking as the front, lower the car and keep roll centre in the same height as before(that will need a change in upper arm position which my setup does). Anti squat is changed only if the pitching motion causes too much camber to be gained by the rear tires on power, nothing more.

Front knuckle, apparently there's a difference in the Ackerman arm. Can't say anything about them as I don't know enough about both.

Rear hub carrier,there is one made of plastic (which doesn't have offset apparently so it's suited to long arm setting) and three aluminium versions. One similar to the plastic one, other with offset and a new one with offset and adjustable hub height.

Rear tread can be used as arm length and outboard toe(never seen it being used but the possibility is there). Longer is better most of the time (only on really low traction).

Chassis brace, wheel hub, sway bars and weight are self explanatory. No need to use weights nor other hubs. A couple of roll bars would be a nice addition. About the aluminium braces I am torn, I guess the car doesn't need flex with this setup but won't recommend the stiffer braces but the lower engine mount is very nice to deal with flex around the clutch.

Wing and wing stay are like the d81x had regarding height and position. The wing should be as low and have free airflow as possible.

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Old 09-01-2017, 07:10 PM
  #1921  
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Originally Posted by rcmike
Are the optional aluminum 19 degree frt caster blocks for the tki4 a nice part to have in your tuning box for different tracks ? thx
I like the 16 degree hubs but if the plastic 17.5 carriers had been around when I got my car I would have saved money and bought them instead.

Now I run the 13 carriers with b block and knuckles from the rtr car. That should be tki3 geometry. The steering is more predictable this way and I have not broken any of the front inserts like I was with the tki4 front end.
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Old 09-02-2017, 12:57 PM
  #1922  
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Originally Posted by windellmc
I like the 16 degree hubs but if the plastic 17.5 carriers had been around when I got my car I would have saved money and bought them instead.

Now I run the 13 carriers with b block and knuckles from the rtr car. That should be tki3 geometry. The steering is more predictable this way and I have not broken any of the front inserts like I was with the tki4 front end.
I tried the 17.5 blocks with the -1 degree insert and I didn't like them as well as the 13 degree carriers. I just put the TKI3 b block on my car and I'll try it out next weekend and see how I like.

The out of the box set-up worked good for me except for in the rhythm section where it caused the front end to pop-up making this section very difficult to handle consistently. I am hoping the the increased kick-up that the TKI3 b block will provide will cure this problem.
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Old 09-02-2017, 12:58 PM
  #1923  
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Default Shock tower??

Has anyone tried the m-s and h-s shock towers?
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Old 09-02-2017, 07:32 PM
  #1924  
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Originally Posted by Winner's Circle
I tried the 17.5 blocks with the -1 degree insert and I didn't like them as well as the 13 degree carriers. I just put the TKI3 b block on my car and I'll try it out next weekend and see how I like.

The out of the box set-up worked good for me except for in the rhythm section where it caused the front end to pop-up making this section very difficult to handle consistently. I am hoping the the increased kick-up that the TKI3 b block will provide will cure this problem.
Not enough high speed steering for me with 13 degrees and the tki4 b block. Car would push and then steer a lot at low speed.
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Old 09-03-2017, 11:19 AM
  #1925  
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Originally Posted by windellmc
Not enough high speed steering for me with 13 degrees and the tki4 b block. Car would push and then steer a lot at low speed.
Interesting. Track conditions,setup and tires please.
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Old 09-03-2017, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by windellmc
Not enough high speed steering for me with 13 degrees and the tki4 b block. Car would push and then steer a lot at low speed.
Felt the exact same thing on my car. I figured it was setup. I have some options to try the next time out.
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Old 09-03-2017, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by 30Tooth
Interesting. Track conditions,setup and tires please.
Outdoor track with pl lockdowns or blockades. Same thing on indoor track with pl electrons. Stock pistons and springs. Max kick up on b block. Max caster on hub carriers. Middle holes on shock towers and inside on arms. It was not track or setup specific. It did exactly what I would expect with too little caster. Worked slightly better on the tight track than the more open one.
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Old 09-03-2017, 06:19 PM
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2am here and way past my bedtime but later will have something to both of you. @STLNLST, can you confirm same conditions as @windellmc?
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Old 09-03-2017, 08:41 PM
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Originally Posted by 30Tooth
2am here and way past my bedtime but later will have something to both of you. @STLNLST, can you confirm same conditions as @windellmc?
If you're referring to high speed push then yes. Car is awesome off power. On flowing tracks with sweepers it does push. I will play with caster the next time out.
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Old 09-03-2017, 10:07 PM
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1 thing I'm noticing coming from a d815-17. Is the Kyosho is a bit more tire sensitive........seems like when the kcar has the correct tire it's spot on money. But if you don't have the tire you get a good push......... The D8 was not as sensitive, but then the d8 was not as good on the right tire It's a give n take
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Old 09-04-2017, 04:41 AM
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Originally Posted by STLNLST
Felt the exact same thing on my car. I figured it was setup. I have some options to try the next time out.
I went from 3 degrees of rear toe to 2.5 and my buggy was great.
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Old 09-04-2017, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by windellmc
Outdoor track with pl lockdowns or blockades. Same thing on indoor track with pl electrons. Stock pistons and springs. Max kick up on b block. Max caster on hub carriers. Middle holes on shock towers and inside on arms. It was not track or setup specific. It did exactly what I would expect with too little caster. Worked slightly better on the tight track than the more open one.
Originally Posted by STLNLST
If you're referring to high speed push then yes. Car is awesome off power. On flowing tracks with sweepers it does push. I will play with caster the next time out.
I'm almost positive there isn't a lack of caster. To both of you, try the front Ackerman hole and reset toe to close to zero.
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Old 09-04-2017, 06:02 PM
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Interesting post's guys. I hit the dirt this Saturday with my tki4. I built the car all stock with just a different diff combo and shock pistons. I was a bit worried the car would be a handful after reading some remarks in here. I never felt uncomfortable with the car. Track was kind of beat up, a little dust in some spots but good grip in the line. This is a coming from a guy who hasnt touched a car in 6 months and raced in 2 years lol. I will experiment with the old B block and knuckles from the tki3. Just so i know.
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Old 09-05-2017, 02:26 AM
  #1934  
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If the car push onpower, go up in centerdiff oil or try 3 degrees of antisquat
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Old 09-05-2017, 04:32 AM
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Hi, im new to the TKI4 and slowly settling in after trying to get the Xray to work on dirt for too long.

Anyway, I raced a club race this week-end and in the last 3rd of the race I suddenly got into the groove and nailed 6 consecutive fast laps with about 1% consistency. I normally get the fastest laps in first 3rd of a race but didn’t think much of it.

When going through the car after the race I noticed that 2 of the forward most screws attaching the radio tray to the chassis were lost, and the middle one 50% unscrewed. In hindsight my theory is that the added flex was good for me/my setup/the track etc. Strangely I nailed the largest jump MUCH better and I was way more consistent in the tight corners (not so strange). The bump handling and high speed sections felt the same.

Any ideas on how to achieve more flex or a similar feel / behavior in the car with all the radio tray screws firmly secured?

Last edited by Bernard B; 09-05-2017 at 09:08 AM.
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