314LikesKyosho Inferno MP9 TKI4 1/8 Buggy Kit
11-05-2018, 09:06 AM - Wikipost
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Picked up a TKI3 and want to upgrade to TKI4 ? Here are all the updated parts:
Shocks IF347-155 1.5X5 Pistons IF471-01 Front Shock Body IF470-01 Rear Shock Body IF470-03BK Shock Adjust Dial IFW154 Boots IF346-05C Shock End Set Wing IF491BK Wing IFW460B Wing Mount/Stay Rear End IFH006W Wheel IF490 HUB IF490-01 Hub Insert IF492 Shock Pin IF423HB Rear Arm IF287 Hard Upper Rod Rear Front End IF489 Steering Rod Set IF488 Knuckles IF487H Front Arm IFW458 Hard Lower Pin IFW425 93MM CVD IF286 Hard Upper Rod IF486 Lower Susp Holder IFW459 Servo Saver (Hard) IF446B Ackerman Arm IF426-64.5 Susp Shaft Other IF469B Filter 97035LW-13 Clutch Bell IF453B Body Mount IFW107GM Hexes W300910 Washer IF443B Center Diff Plate IF444C Tank IF479B Radio Box 96772 13x16x0.15mm Shim IF481B Fuel Tank Stay IFW336GM Wheelnut IFB008 TKI4 Body IFD403W TKI4 Decal --------------------------- Another option if you want TKI4 Durability but TKI3 geometry of the front arm is : IF493 Front Arm (Updated MP9 front arms replaces IF427B as a direct fit. Left and right.) They use the older TKI3 captured outer hinge pin and screw. But if you just reem out the the outer hole you can use TKI hinge-pin/nut (IFW458) --------------------------- Optional Updates / New Parts: IFW469 IFW469 Aeration Cap Set(Threaded Big Shock/MP9) IFW473 New Brake Pads (Sept 2017) Optional Alu front hubs: - IFW412 - 13 deg (like stock plastic ones) - IFW436 - 16 deg - IFW474 - 17.5 deg - IFW461 - 19deg M2C 1mm engine spacer: M2C9610 Body Options New Bitty Force Body Tebo's Build Videos Video #1 Video #2 Video #3 Video #4 Video #5 Video #6 Original Kyosho MP9 TKI Thread _____________________ Baseline setups from Joonas.   _____________________ Shock build with vented cap and compensator. You have to use the HC diaphragms (if346-09,stock TKI3 and if not mistaken TKI4 too, yes the thin ones no one likes), aeration caps without the bleeder screw or mod the stock caps by drilling a 1.5 or 2mm hole on the top facing up or at an angle (doesn't matter the size or angle, it just for bleeding pressure behind the diaphragm and allow the foam compensator to breathe) and a 10mm width x 3.5mm height dome shaped foam compensator made from old open cell inserts or dishwasher sponge. The foam compensator has to be soft enough not to add rebound but allow the diaphragm to regain it's shape. Setup Sheet and Tuning The setup sheet is getting crowded with all options but don't worry once you get acquainted with the parts will make sense. Run the car as is, more than probably you won't need anything else. Using my setup as an example: Diff gear has two options, normal and LSD. LSD stands for limited slip differential and is like using thick oils because you can't tune coast from locked. Shock setup is a bit more confusing, you have two shock body sizes (S and M and truggy sized rear shocks that only the first version had so forget this one), three types of pistons (flat holes and surfaces, flat holes tapered surface and tapered holes with tapered surface): tapered have most pack, then black(simple piston) and then white because length of the holes. Then you have different length springs to account for different shock sizes, for a standard wheelbase/no weights car a good combo is Light Blue front and Orange rear, if you extend the wheelbase then I expect the included Light Blue rear springs be money instead of Orange. Ride height is self explanatory, start always with lower arms parallel because good suspension geometry will be far easier to achieve. Rebound is used as total shock length no idea why they call it rebound, either use total shock length or maximum exposed shock shaft length. Camber self explanatory, run more camber in the front than the rear to make the car oversteer and more rear than front to make it understeer(grossly oversimplified). Toe same deal as camber(again grossly oversimplified) but this you have to run the least amount you can. I use around 2º-2.5º on my cars, never more as I can find traction by other means with way less impact on performance. Wheelbase is a powerful setting, changes a lot of stuff. Let's just say that it can make the car behave neutral or not in that small range. Try for yourself. I like to use the longest setting and tune from there. Shock position self explanatory, something most don't change and I don't play around with it. I do have a method but involves much work (with the car bottomed out, see which position places the shock 90º to the lower arm and then chose spring from a couple equations and bam done, I can do it easily so anyone interested just ask. Rear upper arm position is again an important setting, you change both camber gain and roll centre. The rear roll centre should be higher than the front, that's why I use the middle hole inner row as a starting setup. Suspension arm, self explanatory: there are two different length arms and each has a hard and a normal flex plastic. Front suspension bushing is for upper arm alignment, also same deal as rear upper arm position changes both camber gain and roll centre. Suspension holder is for kick up (pro dive is the correct naming). I believe tki4 9º of kick up to be better than 9º of kick up using the tki3 parts because you can run the car lower (26mm front ride height) and use the +2mm front shock tower if there's too much camber gain or it's stiff in roll. So use +2mm lowered roll centre to keep most stuff unchanged or use the bushings with the dot up to lower the roll centre a bit more, doesn't hurt anything. Front hub carrier, self explanatory. I am trying to use the out hole on top of the carrier as it is better during braking and accelerating. Together with the higher front roll centre on the tki4 should provide enough camber gain during cornering if not then more caster will do. Rear roll centre and anti squat(wrongly called skid angle). Again same thinking as the front, lower the car and keep roll centre in the same height as before(that will need a change in upper arm position which my setup does). Anti squat is changed only if the pitching motion causes too much camber to be gained by the rear tires on power, nothing more. Front knuckle, apparently there's a difference in the Ackerman arm. Can't say anything about them as I don't know enough about both. Rear hub carrier,there is one made of plastic (which doesn't have offset apparently so it's suited to long arm setting) and three aluminium versions. One similar to the plastic one, other with offset and a new one with offset and adjustable hub height. Rear tread can be used as arm length and outboard toe(never seen it being used but the possibility is there). Longer is better most of the time (only on really low traction). Chassis brace, wheel hub, sway bars and weight are self explanatory. No need to use weights nor other hubs. A couple of roll bars would be a nice addition. About the aluminium braces I am torn, I guess the car doesn't need flex with this setup but won't recommend the stiffer braces but the lower engine mount is very nice to deal with flex around the clutch. Wing and wing stay are like the d81x had regarding height and position. The wing should be as low and have free airflow as possible. 
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05-10-2017, 07:18 PM
#1546
How so? Why would it have taken you any longer than previously? The brake actuation rods attached to the throttle servo horn are still the same length as they've always been, the kit instructions don't call for anything different from how the TKI2 and TKI3 were setup, except for the slight change in how much of the rods are inserted into the brake cams (and that doesn't have much, if any affect on which brake is used first or the brake bias - I believe it's just to make the loops in those brake cam rods more central, and inline with where the actuation rods exit the servo horn) and the brake came themselves haven't changed either.
If you could please explain how and why it took you so long to get more front brake bias, perhaps we can go from there. I find it still takes the same amount of time to screw the actuation rods into or out of the throttle horn blocks and the manual still gives the same crappy instructions on how to setup the springs and little black plastic thingies. None of the bits and pieces which make up the components of IF454 have changed for many years, afaik.
Incidentally, Losi produced a fantastic document giving very thorough instructions about how to setup one's throttle and brakes correctly. If anyone's interested I'll see if I can dig it up.
Oh, one last query: why do you want your front brakes coming on first anyway? I used to race motorcycles and am still very much interested in them and watch every MotoGP race and in the wet, it's common practice to put the rear brake on slightly before the front as it gives the bike more stability and it can be incredibly easy to lock the front brake when trying to slow a GP bike from 200-250+kph for a tight hairpin or off-camber corner, at perhaps, about 60-100kph (approx 125-150mph down to 35-60'mph) in the wet as literally squeezing the brake lever maybe 1-2mm too far will lock the front wheel and in such conditions a rider goes down before they even have a chance react.
So my point is that having the rear brakes apply a tiny fraction of a second sooner than the fronts is usually quite beneficial. There are so many parallels between how an off-road buggy is driven and the lines they take compared, especially with motocross bikes but road racing bikes also.
Anyway, I'm just curious as to why you'd think that anything much, if at all has changed since the previous few TKI buggy revisions and even if it had, why would you have any issues at all about increasing the bias towards the front?
If you could please explain how and why it took you so long to get more front brake bias, perhaps we can go from there. I find it still takes the same amount of time to screw the actuation rods into or out of the throttle horn blocks and the manual still gives the same crappy instructions on how to setup the springs and little black plastic thingies. None of the bits and pieces which make up the components of IF454 have changed for many years, afaik.
Incidentally, Losi produced a fantastic document giving very thorough instructions about how to setup one's throttle and brakes correctly. If anyone's interested I'll see if I can dig it up.
Oh, one last query: why do you want your front brakes coming on first anyway? I used to race motorcycles and am still very much interested in them and watch every MotoGP race and in the wet, it's common practice to put the rear brake on slightly before the front as it gives the bike more stability and it can be incredibly easy to lock the front brake when trying to slow a GP bike from 200-250+kph for a tight hairpin or off-camber corner, at perhaps, about 60-100kph (approx 125-150mph down to 35-60'mph) in the wet as literally squeezing the brake lever maybe 1-2mm too far will lock the front wheel and in such conditions a rider goes down before they even have a chance react.
So my point is that having the rear brakes apply a tiny fraction of a second sooner than the fronts is usually quite beneficial. There are so many parallels between how an off-road buggy is driven and the lines they take compared, especially with motocross bikes but road racing bikes also.
Anyway, I'm just curious as to why you'd think that anything much, if at all has changed since the previous few TKI buggy revisions and even if it had, why would you have any issues at all about increasing the bias towards the front?
About K-cars brake system:
- How deep are rods in br.cams - this changes leverage of force goin' from servo to brake pads. Further from rotation point - more lever - more force.
- By rotating knobs on links you can adjust pre- and post-engagement.
So now i have more lever to front pads and a tiny bit of pre-engagement on them (i'm also using springs btw pads). That setup fits my driving style for local track w/lot of hairpins: if brakes and steering input applied correctly, buggy almost makes front wheelie in hairpin's apex sliding back for the whole 180, or at least can make turn radius much smaller than it had with stock setup.
And some side note: its very interesting how buggy can be driven off- or on-power with same setup. Tight hairpins - off, chicanes - on.
05-10-2017, 08:30 PM
#1547
Very interested in the brake discussion specific to the this car.
My TKI4 brake performance appears fine on the track, but when on the bench and brakes are applied the wheels don't rotate smoothly. Particularly the front brakes.
Done the Tebo mods to the pads and rotors.
Any thoughts?
My TKI4 brake performance appears fine on the track, but when on the bench and brakes are applied the wheels don't rotate smoothly. Particularly the front brakes.
Done the Tebo mods to the pads and rotors.
Any thoughts?
05-10-2017, 11:26 PM
#1548
Very interested in the brake discussion specific to the this car.
My TKI4 brake performance appears fine on the track, but when on the bench and brakes are applied the wheels don't rotate smoothly. Particularly the front brakes.
Done the Tebo mods to the pads and rotors.
Any thoughts?
My TKI4 brake performance appears fine on the track, but when on the bench and brakes are applied the wheels don't rotate smoothly. Particularly the front brakes.
Done the Tebo mods to the pads and rotors.
Any thoughts?
05-11-2017, 11:10 AM
#1551
Anyone ever got a bad batch of the nylon wheel nuts? They threaded on ( I don't feel like I forced them ) but then when taking them off they were stuck about half way and ruined threads on two of my hubs. I tossed all of them
05-11-2017, 12:04 PM
#1552
Tech Adept
Wheelk nuts
You need to put some grease on the threads before you fit them for the first time or else they stick and then they are junk.
05-11-2017, 01:23 PM
#1553
Been driving a D815 for the past two years and I've always wanted an Inferno and looking to make the switch. I know its not the tank that a 815 is, but are the new arms a significant improvement in terms of durability? That would be my only real concern as I know everything else is top notch.
05-11-2017, 03:31 PM
#1555
05-11-2017, 06:53 PM
#1557
I've broken an arm just a hour later after Tekno EB48 had broken its arm in the same place. So, can i say that TKI4 is a tank? No. But its durable enough.
05-11-2017, 11:41 PM
#1558
Tech Adept
roll center
If i want to raise the front roll center do i need to raise the front and rear upper pills.
05-12-2017, 03:54 PM
#1559
