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Kyosho Inferno MP9 TKI4 1/8 Buggy Kit

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Kyosho Inferno MP9 TKI4 1/8 Buggy Kit

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Old 11-05-2018, 09:06 AM   -   Wikipost
R/C Tech ForumsThread Wiki: Kyosho Inferno MP9 TKI4 1/8 Buggy Kit
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Last edit by: 30Tooth
Picked up a TKI3 and want to upgrade to TKI4 ? Here are all the updated parts:

Shocks

IF347-155 1.5X5 Pistons
IF471-01 Front Shock Body
IF470-01 Rear Shock Body
IF470-03BK Shock Adjust Dial
IFW154 Boots
IF346-05C Shock End Set

Wing

IF491BK Wing
IFW460B Wing Mount/Stay

Rear End

IFH006W Wheel
IF490 HUB
IF490-01 Hub Insert
IF492 Shock Pin
IF423HB Rear Arm
IF287 Hard Upper Rod Rear

Front End

IF489 Steering Rod Set
IF488 Knuckles
IF487H Front Arm
IFW458 Hard Lower Pin
IFW425 93MM CVD
IF286 Hard Upper Rod
IF486 Lower Susp Holder
IFW459 Servo Saver (Hard)
IF446B Ackerman Arm
IF426-64.5 Susp Shaft


Other

IF469B Filter
97035LW-13 Clutch Bell
IF453B Body Mount
IFW107GM Hexes
W300910 Washer
IF443B Center Diff Plate
IF444C Tank
IF479B Radio Box
96772 13x16x0.15mm Shim
IF481B Fuel Tank Stay
IFW336GM Wheelnut
IFB008 TKI4 Body
IFD403W TKI4 Decal

---------------------------

Another option if you want TKI4 Durability but TKI3 geometry of the front arm is :

IF493 Front Arm (Updated MP9 front arms replaces IF427B as a direct fit. Left and right.)

They use the older TKI3 captured outer hinge pin and screw. But if you just reem out the the outer hole you can use TKI hinge-pin/nut (IFW458)
---------------------------

Optional Updates / New Parts:

IFW469 IFW469 Aeration Cap Set(Threaded Big Shock/MP9)

IFW473 New Brake Pads (Sept 2017)

Optional Alu front hubs:
- IFW412 - 13 deg (like stock plastic ones)
- IFW436 - 16 deg
- IFW474 - 17.5 deg
- IFW461 - 19deg

M2C 1mm engine spacer: M2C9610

Body Options
New Bitty Force Body

Tebo's Build Videos

Video #1

Video #2

Video #3

Video #4

Video #5

Video #6

Original Kyosho MP9 TKI Thread
_____________________

Baseline setups from Joonas.




_____________________

Shock build with vented cap and compensator.

You have to use the HC diaphragms (if346-09,stock TKI3 and if not mistaken TKI4 too, yes the thin ones no one likes), aeration caps without the bleeder screw or mod the stock caps by drilling a 1.5 or 2mm hole on the top facing up or at an angle (doesn't matter the size or angle, it just for bleeding pressure behind the diaphragm and allow the foam compensator to breathe) and a 10mm width x 3.5mm height dome shaped foam compensator made from old open cell inserts or dishwasher sponge. The foam compensator has to be soft enough not to add rebound but allow the diaphragm to regain it's shape.

Setup Sheet and Tuning

The setup sheet is getting crowded with all options but don't worry once you get acquainted with the parts will make sense.
Run the car as is, more than probably you won't need anything else. Using my setup as an example:

Diff gear has two options, normal and LSD. LSD stands for limited slip differential and is like using thick oils because you can't tune coast from locked.

Shock setup is a bit more confusing, you have two shock body sizes (S and M and truggy sized rear shocks that only the first version had so forget this one), three types of pistons (flat holes and surfaces, flat holes tapered surface and tapered holes with tapered surface): tapered have most pack, then black(simple piston) and then white because length of the holes. Then you have different length springs to account for different shock sizes, for a standard wheelbase/no weights car a good combo is Light Blue front and Orange rear, if you extend the wheelbase then I expect the included Light Blue rear springs be money instead of Orange.

Ride height is self explanatory, start always with lower arms parallel because good suspension geometry will be far easier to achieve. Rebound is used as total shock length no idea why they call it rebound, either use total shock length or maximum exposed shock shaft length. Camber self explanatory, run more camber in the front than the rear to make the car oversteer and more rear than front to make it understeer(grossly oversimplified).

Toe same deal as camber(again grossly oversimplified) but this you have to run the least amount you can. I use around 2-2.5 on my cars, never more as I can find traction by other means with way less impact on performance.

Wheelbase is a powerful setting, changes a lot of stuff. Let's just say that it can make the car behave neutral or not in that small range. Try for yourself. I like to use the longest setting and tune from there.

Shock position self explanatory, something most don't change and I don't play around with it. I do have a method but involves much work (with the car bottomed out, see which position places the shock 90 to the lower arm and then chose spring from a couple equations and bam done, I can do it easily so anyone interested just ask.

Rear upper arm position is again an important setting, you change both camber gain and roll centre. The rear roll centre should be higher than the front, that's why I use the middle hole inner row as a starting setup.

Suspension arm, self explanatory: there are two different length arms and each has a hard and a normal flex plastic.

Front suspension bushing is for upper arm alignment, also same deal as rear upper arm position changes both camber gain and roll centre.

Suspension holder is for kick up (pro dive is the correct naming). I believe tki4 9 of kick up to be better than 9 of kick up using the tki3 parts because you can run the car lower (26mm front ride height) and use the +2mm front shock tower if there's too much camber gain or it's stiff in roll. So use +2mm lowered roll centre to keep most stuff unchanged or use the bushings with the dot up to lower the roll centre a bit more, doesn't hurt anything.

Front hub carrier, self explanatory. I am trying to use the out hole on top of the carrier as it is better during braking and accelerating. Together with the higher front roll centre on the tki4 should provide enough camber gain during cornering if not then more caster will do.

Rear roll centre and anti squat(wrongly called skid angle). Again same thinking as the front, lower the car and keep roll centre in the same height as before(that will need a change in upper arm position which my setup does). Anti squat is changed only if the pitching motion causes too much camber to be gained by the rear tires on power, nothing more.

Front knuckle, apparently there's a difference in the Ackerman arm. Can't say anything about them as I don't know enough about both.

Rear hub carrier,there is one made of plastic (which doesn't have offset apparently so it's suited to long arm setting) and three aluminium versions. One similar to the plastic one, other with offset and a new one with offset and adjustable hub height.

Rear tread can be used as arm length and outboard toe(never seen it being used but the possibility is there). Longer is better most of the time (only on really low traction).

Chassis brace, wheel hub, sway bars and weight are self explanatory. No need to use weights nor other hubs. A couple of roll bars would be a nice addition. About the aluminium braces I am torn, I guess the car doesn't need flex with this setup but won't recommend the stiffer braces but the lower engine mount is very nice to deal with flex around the clutch.

Wing and wing stay are like the d81x had regarding height and position. The wing should be as low and have free airflow as possible.

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Old 05-08-2017, 03:00 PM
  #1531  
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which hard rear tower?
IFW408B
IF437
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Old 05-08-2017, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by HaulinBass
which hard rear tower?
IFW408B
IF437
I'm thinking he brought IF437 which is taller than stock...IFW408B would be equivalent to stock (Kit) geometry, right?
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Old 05-08-2017, 06:35 PM
  #1533  
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Originally Posted by 30Tooth
Previous advice is still valid, you can now use this setup on 99% of tracks out there with changes in roll centre and tires.
So if traction come up I need to raise roll center a little to prevent over rolling? Thanks
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Old 05-08-2017, 10:46 PM
  #1534  
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Do HB pistons fit properly? The HB kits come with a bunch of options so i have heaps but unsure if they are the right dimensions.
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Old 05-09-2017, 01:54 AM
  #1535  
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Originally Posted by CFRacing
So if traction come up I need to raise roll center a little to prevent over rolling? Thanks
Not quite, once you found the best geometry for those tires you don't change geometry without changing tires. Instead change roll bars, thinner for less traction and thicker for higher traction.
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Old 05-09-2017, 04:20 AM
  #1536  
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Originally Posted by ColourGhost
Hi Guys.

Can someone please enlighten me regarding rear shock tower. The stock tower compared to the "hard" shock tower are not the same size. The hard tower is 3-4mm (didn't measure) higher. That means less droop, or is there some trick i missed ??
A bit strange that it's not possible to buy a rear tower similar to the stock one, since i have now gotten used to the stock droop. I haven't tried the "hard" tower, only seen it compared to stock, but i imagine my droop being minimized quite a bit.

Anyone have an answer ?

Enjoy -
https://www.dollarhobbyz.com/product...ock-tower-stay
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Old 05-09-2017, 08:28 AM
  #1537  
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Hello Gavel,

The HB Piston would not properly fit into Kyosho Shock Shaft because the center hole is 2.8mm where Kyosho piston has 2.5mm Center Hole.

Btw, I would say that You should stick with Kyosho Piston because in my finding Kyosho Piston is the best machined piston in the Industry in term of precision.

Cheers..

Originally Posted by Gavel
Do HB pistons fit properly? The HB kits come with a bunch of options so i have heaps but unsure if they are the right dimensions.
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Old 05-09-2017, 11:10 AM
  #1538  
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Originally Posted by 30Tooth
Not quite, once you found the best geometry for those tires you don't change geometry without changing tires. Instead change roll bars, thinner for less traction and thicker for higher traction.
Actually, it's the exact opposite. Thinner anti-roll bars will provide more traction as the more the car rolls, the greater the weight transfer and thus higher traction. When a car 'traction rolls' it's because it has too much traction. Therefore, if one installs a thicker anti-roll bar, there's less traction and less traction and a lesser chance of traction rolling.

Check out Hudy's setup system manual and you'll see that:
Thinner front anti-roll bar will increase from chassis roll, increase front traction, decrease rear traction and increase off power (corner entry) traction. The reverse is true for a thicker bar.
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Old 05-09-2017, 12:16 PM
  #1539  
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I think you both are saying the same. Low traction thin bar hi traction thick bar.
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Old 05-09-2017, 01:29 PM
  #1540  
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Thanks for the responses regarding rear shock tower

New question. Are you dudes using the Black or white 1.3x8 hole pistons ?
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Old 05-09-2017, 01:58 PM
  #1541  
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Originally Posted by ColourGhost
Thanks for the responses regarding rear shock tower

New question. Are you dudes using the Black or white 1.3x8 hole pistons ?
White.
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Old 05-09-2017, 07:05 PM
  #1542  
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Another run, another setup changes:
- Limited fr.droop from 101 to 100mm
- Shortened rear link from 10.8mm to 10.3mm (noticed wear pattern on tires)
And with almost bald Catapults it is a blast: tons of bite exiting the corner.
---
Question about box setup: looks like that brake bias is rear-shifted? It took some time to make fr.bias and fr.engagement first.
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Old 05-10-2017, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by vandalzzz
Question about box setup: looks like that brake bias is rear-shifted? It took some time to make fr.bias and fr.engagement first.
How so? Why would it have taken you any longer than previously? The brake actuation rods attached to the throttle servo horn are still the same length as they've always been, the kit instructions don't call for anything different from how the TKI2 and TKI3 were setup, except for the slight change in how much of the rods are inserted into the brake cams (and that doesn't have much, if any affect on which brake is used first or the brake bias - I believe it's just to make the loops in those brake cam rods more central, and inline with where the actuation rods exit the servo horn) and the brake came themselves haven't changed either.

If you could please explain how and why it took you so long to get more front brake bias, perhaps we can go from there. I find it still takes the same amount of time to screw the actuation rods into or out of the throttle horn blocks and the manual still gives the same crappy instructions on how to setup the springs and little black plastic thingies. None of the bits and pieces which make up the components of IF454 have changed for many years, afaik.

Incidentally, Losi produced a fantastic document giving very thorough instructions about how to setup one's throttle and brakes correctly. If anyone's interested I'll see if I can dig it up.

Oh, one last query: why do you want your front brakes coming on first anyway? I used to race motorcycles and am still very much interested in them and watch every MotoGP race and in the wet, it's common practice to put the rear brake on slightly before the front as it gives the bike more stability and it can be incredibly easy to lock the front brake when trying to slow a GP bike from 200-250+kph for a tight hairpin or off-camber corner, at perhaps, about 60-100kph (approx 125-150mph down to 35-60'mph) in the wet as literally squeezing the brake lever maybe 1-2mm too far will lock the front wheel and in such conditions a rider goes down before they even have a chance react.

So my point is that having the rear brakes apply a tiny fraction of a second sooner than the fronts is usually quite beneficial. There are so many parallels between how an off-road buggy is driven and the lines they take compared, especially with motocross bikes but road racing bikes also.

Anyway, I'm just curious as to why you'd think that anything much, if at all has changed since the previous few TKI buggy revisions and even if it had, why would you have any issues at all about increasing the bias towards the front?
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Old 05-10-2017, 04:36 PM
  #1544  
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My honest opinion, braking is preference. I actually like more front brakes then rear.
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Old 05-10-2017, 04:44 PM
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Anyone tried the m2c o ring shock pistons? Thanks
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