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Kyosho Inferno MP9 TKI4 1/8 Buggy Kit

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Kyosho Inferno MP9 TKI4 1/8 Buggy Kit

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Old 11-05-2018, 09:06 AM   -   Wikipost
R/C Tech ForumsThread Wiki: Kyosho Inferno MP9 TKI4 1/8 Buggy Kit
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Last edit by: 30Tooth
Picked up a TKI3 and want to upgrade to TKI4 ? Here are all the updated parts:

Shocks

IF347-155 1.5X5 Pistons
IF471-01 Front Shock Body
IF470-01 Rear Shock Body
IF470-03BK Shock Adjust Dial
IFW154 Boots
IF346-05C Shock End Set

Wing

IF491BK Wing
IFW460B Wing Mount/Stay

Rear End

IFH006W Wheel
IF490 HUB
IF490-01 Hub Insert
IF492 Shock Pin
IF423HB Rear Arm
IF287 Hard Upper Rod Rear

Front End

IF489 Steering Rod Set
IF488 Knuckles
IF487H Front Arm
IFW458 Hard Lower Pin
IFW425 93MM CVD
IF286 Hard Upper Rod
IF486 Lower Susp Holder
IFW459 Servo Saver (Hard)
IF446B Ackerman Arm
IF426-64.5 Susp Shaft


Other

IF469B Filter
97035LW-13 Clutch Bell
IF453B Body Mount
IFW107GM Hexes
W300910 Washer
IF443B Center Diff Plate
IF444C Tank
IF479B Radio Box
96772 13x16x0.15mm Shim
IF481B Fuel Tank Stay
IFW336GM Wheelnut
IFB008 TKI4 Body
IFD403W TKI4 Decal

---------------------------

Another option if you want TKI4 Durability but TKI3 geometry of the front arm is :

IF493 Front Arm (Updated MP9 front arms replaces IF427B as a direct fit. Left and right.)

They use the older TKI3 captured outer hinge pin and screw. But if you just reem out the the outer hole you can use TKI hinge-pin/nut (IFW458)
---------------------------

Optional Updates / New Parts:

IFW469 IFW469 Aeration Cap Set(Threaded Big Shock/MP9)

IFW473 New Brake Pads (Sept 2017)

Optional Alu front hubs:
- IFW412 - 13 deg (like stock plastic ones)
- IFW436 - 16 deg
- IFW474 - 17.5 deg
- IFW461 - 19deg

M2C 1mm engine spacer: M2C9610

Body Options
New Bitty Force Body

Tebo's Build Videos

Video #1

Video #2

Video #3

Video #4

Video #5

Video #6

Original Kyosho MP9 TKI Thread
_____________________

Baseline setups from Joonas.




_____________________

Shock build with vented cap and compensator.

You have to use the HC diaphragms (if346-09,stock TKI3 and if not mistaken TKI4 too, yes the thin ones no one likes), aeration caps without the bleeder screw or mod the stock caps by drilling a 1.5 or 2mm hole on the top facing up or at an angle (doesn't matter the size or angle, it just for bleeding pressure behind the diaphragm and allow the foam compensator to breathe) and a 10mm width x 3.5mm height dome shaped foam compensator made from old open cell inserts or dishwasher sponge. The foam compensator has to be soft enough not to add rebound but allow the diaphragm to regain it's shape.

Setup Sheet and Tuning

The setup sheet is getting crowded with all options but don't worry once you get acquainted with the parts will make sense.
Run the car as is, more than probably you won't need anything else. Using my setup as an example:

Diff gear has two options, normal and LSD. LSD stands for limited slip differential and is like using thick oils because you can't tune coast from locked.

Shock setup is a bit more confusing, you have two shock body sizes (S and M and truggy sized rear shocks that only the first version had so forget this one), three types of pistons (flat holes and surfaces, flat holes tapered surface and tapered holes with tapered surface): tapered have most pack, then black(simple piston) and then white because length of the holes. Then you have different length springs to account for different shock sizes, for a standard wheelbase/no weights car a good combo is Light Blue front and Orange rear, if you extend the wheelbase then I expect the included Light Blue rear springs be money instead of Orange.

Ride height is self explanatory, start always with lower arms parallel because good suspension geometry will be far easier to achieve. Rebound is used as total shock length no idea why they call it rebound, either use total shock length or maximum exposed shock shaft length. Camber self explanatory, run more camber in the front than the rear to make the car oversteer and more rear than front to make it understeer(grossly oversimplified).

Toe same deal as camber(again grossly oversimplified) but this you have to run the least amount you can. I use around 2-2.5 on my cars, never more as I can find traction by other means with way less impact on performance.

Wheelbase is a powerful setting, changes a lot of stuff. Let's just say that it can make the car behave neutral or not in that small range. Try for yourself. I like to use the longest setting and tune from there.

Shock position self explanatory, something most don't change and I don't play around with it. I do have a method but involves much work (with the car bottomed out, see which position places the shock 90 to the lower arm and then chose spring from a couple equations and bam done, I can do it easily so anyone interested just ask.

Rear upper arm position is again an important setting, you change both camber gain and roll centre. The rear roll centre should be higher than the front, that's why I use the middle hole inner row as a starting setup.

Suspension arm, self explanatory: there are two different length arms and each has a hard and a normal flex plastic.

Front suspension bushing is for upper arm alignment, also same deal as rear upper arm position changes both camber gain and roll centre.

Suspension holder is for kick up (pro dive is the correct naming). I believe tki4 9 of kick up to be better than 9 of kick up using the tki3 parts because you can run the car lower (26mm front ride height) and use the +2mm front shock tower if there's too much camber gain or it's stiff in roll. So use +2mm lowered roll centre to keep most stuff unchanged or use the bushings with the dot up to lower the roll centre a bit more, doesn't hurt anything.

Front hub carrier, self explanatory. I am trying to use the out hole on top of the carrier as it is better during braking and accelerating. Together with the higher front roll centre on the tki4 should provide enough camber gain during cornering if not then more caster will do.

Rear roll centre and anti squat(wrongly called skid angle). Again same thinking as the front, lower the car and keep roll centre in the same height as before(that will need a change in upper arm position which my setup does). Anti squat is changed only if the pitching motion causes too much camber to be gained by the rear tires on power, nothing more.

Front knuckle, apparently there's a difference in the Ackerman arm. Can't say anything about them as I don't know enough about both.

Rear hub carrier,there is one made of plastic (which doesn't have offset apparently so it's suited to long arm setting) and three aluminium versions. One similar to the plastic one, other with offset and a new one with offset and adjustable hub height.

Rear tread can be used as arm length and outboard toe(never seen it being used but the possibility is there). Longer is better most of the time (only on really low traction).

Chassis brace, wheel hub, sway bars and weight are self explanatory. No need to use weights nor other hubs. A couple of roll bars would be a nice addition. About the aluminium braces I am torn, I guess the car doesn't need flex with this setup but won't recommend the stiffer braces but the lower engine mount is very nice to deal with flex around the clutch.

Wing and wing stay are like the d81x had regarding height and position. The wing should be as low and have free airflow as possible.

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Old 05-07-2017, 05:36 AM
  #1516  
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Originally Posted by jeancc
Hi guys,

please can some of you explain the differences (and best track condition-use) of these lower front arms?

KYOIF487
KYOIF483B
KYOIF487H
KYOIF493
487H(ard) are stock TKI4 arms, hard ones, then you have the flex ones which are 487. The 483B are TK2/3 arms updated to TKI4 strength. The 493 are the latest ones, interestingly also said to replace the TKI2/3 arms. My recommendation is to use only 487 and 487H everywhere.

Originally Posted by aaron125
While you're at it, can someone explain how the new B block hinge pin holder affects the handling of the car if all other parts are as per a TKI3 please? Oh, and the new rear uprights also. Thanks guys.
Less kick up, which means the front rises and dives less on throttle and brake inputs.
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Old 05-07-2017, 07:08 AM
  #1517  
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Hey 30thoot ran a few laps with the starting setup ran good just a little loose off power corner entry, what should I try first roll center changes or thicker sway bar, front or rear or both. Gracias.
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Old 05-07-2017, 07:25 AM
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[QUOTE=ravage;14920105]
Originally Posted by Team_Orange

Ok sweet i think I'm going to go with it. Is this what you are talking about? https://www.amainhobbies.com/m2c-rac...2c9610/p267815
Those would be it. 👍
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Old 05-07-2017, 04:19 PM
  #1519  
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Originally Posted by CFRacing
Hey 30thoot ran a few laps with the starting setup ran good just a little loose off power corner entry, what should I try first roll center changes or thicker sway bar, front or rear or both. Gracias.
Depends on how the tires wore, try going moving the rear inner camber link one hole up on the shock tower.
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Old 05-07-2017, 05:03 PM
  #1520  
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My bad, test was skewed wrong front roll center will try again this week. Big race coming Up. Qwick question, will a too fast steering servo hurt handling ?
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Old 05-07-2017, 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by CFRacing
My bad, test was skewed wrong front roll center will try again this week. Big race coming Up. Qwick question, will a too fast steering servo hurt handling ?
Depends on your skill and if you can get used to it. If it is much faster than your previous one you might be a bit twitchy at first. At least when I went from a standard HV savox servo to the aluminum HV faster servo I was twitchy a bit at first, but once I got used to it, I felt it helped my lap times. Sometimes though I do start my turns a bit too soon when I am trying to really hug the lines on corners, but this might be me not the servo
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Old 05-07-2017, 10:31 PM
  #1522  
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negative expo can tame a faster steering servo. -15 or -20 to start and slowly creep it back to 0 as you get comfortable.
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Old 05-07-2017, 11:41 PM
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I'd say that absolutely a too fast servo will make a driver slower. For sure if your steering servo is too fast then the car will be (depending on a driver's own driving style and preferences) twitchy and can be quite difficult to control. I tried using fast servos but just couldn't get any benefit from anything faster than about 0.09s ornso. And that goes for the throttle servo too. In fact, the throttle was about the only thing which didn't suffer from the fast servo but certainly my steering and braking did. And noticeably.

No matter how much neg expo I dialled in, and I put it way up at one stage, it still didn't help. I believe the reason being that expo alters how far a servo will rotate in comparison to how far the tx wheel is turned but it doesn't alter the speed at all. If you look at how expo works, it tames the initial servo travel and really, it makes a lot of sense because it helps to increase accuracy at small wheel movements, where it's most needed because if the wheel is turned quite a bit, obviously the driver isn't trying to finesse anything.

But it's all down to personal preference. I'm prettty sure that Jared Tebo uses the Power servo for both steering and throttle, and I'm not 100% sure about this but I think Cody also used a Power servo for steering when he won his WC. But for sure, there's no right or wrong, just whatever gives a driver the best feel and confidence is all that matters. I actually found that a reasonably slow servo didn't hurt my performance at all when I was just getting started. I used a Hitec 5955/7955 for a number of years and they were really quite a popular servo in their day, so obviously many other non-pro drivers agreed.
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Old 05-08-2017, 02:33 AM
  #1524  
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A fast servo are benefical IF you set it up right. Use expo too numb the neutral point, -10 is enough, and slow the servo speed in the radio. If you set forward speed at -5 or similar and let return speed be at 0 you can use all pros of a fast servo. This means that you can get more traction when you start turning into a corner and not lose it due to twitchiness. But the return will be fast so you are able to correct if you need too. Same goes for throttle.
Just my opinion
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Old 05-08-2017, 04:19 AM
  #1525  
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Thanks to all of you ����
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Old 05-08-2017, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by CFRacing
My bad, test was skewed wrong front roll center will try again this week. Big race coming Up. Qwick question, will a too fast steering servo hurt handling ?
Previous advice is still valid, you can now use this setup on 99% of tracks out there with changes in roll centre and tires.
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Old 05-08-2017, 11:32 AM
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When running the TKI4 hard arms #IF487H on my TKI3 it looks like I need the following additional parts:
93mm universal #IFW425
inner lower hinge pin #IFW462-64.5 (not necessary but supposed to be better)
outer hinge pin #IFW458

I see the TKI4 manual states to install the inner suspension pills with the holes towards the inside. Are the longer universals absolutely needed on the TKI3 with the TKI4 arms?

Is this correct? Should I get anything else?

Thanks
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Old 05-08-2017, 12:34 PM
  #1528  
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Originally Posted by Payton 34
When running the TKI4 hard arms #IF487H on my TKI3 it looks like I need the following additional parts:
93mm universal #IFW425
inner lower hinge pin #IFW462-64.5 (not necessary but supposed to be better)
outer hinge pin #IFW458

I see the TKI4 manual states to install the inner suspension pills with the holes towards the inside. Are the longer universals absolutely needed on the TKI3 with the TKI4 arms?

Is this correct? Should I get anything else?

Thanks
Not absolutely needed but a safe upgrade incase you have any hard hits, twisting the arm enough to pull out of the outdrive..

Or run the IF493 Arm. (Its same geometry as TKI3 but strengthened like the tki4. Don't need IFW458 either but thats a worthy upgrade in my opinion (instead of the screw).
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Old 05-08-2017, 02:16 PM
  #1529  
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Thanks for the info. I have some spare TKI3 universals so I will try it with the TKI3 universals and see what happens. When they need replacing I will definitely get the longer TKI4 universals.
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Old 05-08-2017, 02:39 PM
  #1530  
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Default Rear shock tower

Hi Guys.

Can someone please enlighten me regarding rear shock tower. The stock tower compared to the "hard" shock tower are not the same size. The hard tower is 3-4mm (didn't measure) higher. That means less droop, or is there some trick i missed ??
A bit strange that it's not possible to buy a rear tower similar to the stock one, since i have now gotten used to the stock droop. I haven't tried the "hard" tower, only seen it compared to stock, but i imagine my droop being minimized quite a bit.

Anyone have an answer ?

Enjoy -
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